Problems setting timing

[Duster1]

Hi All,
After some advice/help.
We recently swapped the 318 on our Duster for a 360.
This was a rebuilt engine with new pistons, Rhoades lifters and a purple cam. (Not by us, thankfully )
The issue we are having is that initially we couldn’t get the timing to go lower than 2000 rpm. On checking the timing found to be at about 45 degrees, moved distributor and got down to around 20 degrees but no lower and the rpm stays at 1300.
It has a 4 barrel Holley carb and an HEI distributor( not branded). Basically we are at the end of our knowledge no how,mechanics we are not. The car has been off the road for around 7 years and we have done so much and spent a lot of time and money, rewiring and replacement parts. So close.
Any advice, whatever would be extremely grateful.
Andy

[Pete]

It is a case of back to basics.

Disconnect all vacuum ports and plug them.

Static time the engine to TDC at No 1 on the Compression Stroke with a tool down the bore, check that the Damper has not moved on the rubber (and indeed that it has the correct damper fitted).

If all is correct then Spin the motor around on to the compression stroke again and get it to around 12 - 14 degrees BTDC and see where the Rotor arm is pointing (Should be near No 1 Spark plug cap terminal) and that it is correct.

Check the Dizzy bob weights are not stuck or if the timing has been locked out. Remedy as required.

Make sure the Carb Idle screw is not wound in excessively - the car may be running on the intermediate circuits.

Check that you do not have any air leaks (Small Blocks can suffer with an "internal" Air leak where the Inlet manifold gasket has not been fitted correctly and a port / ports can draw air in from the Valley).

Hope you get it sorted!

[Duster1]

Cheers Pete,
Will look into it, but to honest I’m working in the dark with this.

[Pete]

Time for professional help then.
It's not that hard, but needs research and can be a bit of a learning curve....

[Steve]

I tapped into all the knowledge on here when I first got my car. I knew the most basic of basics but spent ages trawling through previous posts etc filled with answers like Pete has just given. They are a godsend and if you study them and have a go then it falls into place, eventually.

There is a really good thread by Dave that fully explains the principle of timing curves etc etc that's brilliant for amateurs like me. Once the principles are in there, you can actually work out logically step by step what may be not quite right and stopping the car running. I will see if I can find it and put the link on for you, it really is a 'must read'....

[Steve]

Sorry, I can't find the thread by Dave-R for some reason. It became a 'go to' read but I just can't find it at the moment.

Really sorry if I'm teaching granny to suck eggs, I am no expert at all but have found reading on the subject etc has improved my knowledge to the point where I can generally work out (and a bit of trial and error) what's going on with my car. I invested in a good use Snap On dial in timing light with a tacho and a good vac gauge, both of which have been essential.

I watch lots of stuff like this.......

https://youtu.be/4Hy23-MccSI?si=zSH2AOz_TdSihzhu

Combine this with what Pete says about the accuracy of the timing mark on the balancer etc and you will very quickly understand exactly what's going on and why. Pete and others have developed skills that lie well beyond the essentials that he explained and build/ run very good race engines that still need the basics in place. For my needs, the basics of day to day driver engines are sufficient but the advanced, deeper stuff that gets discussed all adds to our understanding around problem solving.

A big thing that made the timing penny drop for me was understanding that a cylinder full of fuel / air mix takes the same time to fully burn at 1 rpm as it does at 10,000 rpm. That explains why as the rpm increases and each stroke takes less and less time to complete, the point at which the spark ignites the mixture has to be earlier and earlier (to a point) to ensure the mixture can fully burn. This made me understand what the difference was between initial and total advance, advance curve, all in RPM etc.

I use my timing light for noting what my settings are as I progress and after the car is running well and as an easy way to test my plug leads etc. The vac gauge helps to give me a rough idea when the timing is where it wants to be and to get the idle mix more accurate than the basic setting.

Good luck with your efforts, it is all very achievable with research and the benefit of the knowledge and expertise that is generously shared by the people on here who continuously help me and others less experienced.

Please keep us updated with your progress as people like me learn by seeing how you overcome issues etc

[Steve]

This got me 'browsing' again over a coffee .... I never even thought of doing this. Worth knowing and banking in the knowledge arsenal

https://youtu.be/u2sA-q7_FtQ?si=BbKuzoZK30lL1RMf

[morgan]

Just to say ‘hang in there’.
I went through exactly the same learning curve(sic) - Pete’s post is the basics in a nutshell. Follow that and you’ll soon work out which bit isn’t aligning…

Timing drove me nuts - couldn’t work out why all these old clunkers seemed to run perfectly and mine fought me every step- but you will get there.

Keep us posted…