After lots of reading Bogesons modern box is a no brainer !
I even like the driver's review a bit heavy and no more 1 finger parking!
The cheapest way i can see of doing it is cut and shut steering column. (i bet you could do it in the car in place)
I did this mod already onto my standard steering column as the original Chrysler UJ thing is Bananarama!.
AN- Brained hoses to pump but I already have these.
Box is 11/16 in. 36-spline
Box Fittings are 16mm x 1.5m Flare
Summit shopping list below but will have to wait a while for me as financial haemorrhaging with Jade.
Firmfeel steering ?
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autofetish
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Re: Firmfeel steering ?
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The closer you are to death the more alive you are
Re: Firmfeel steering ?
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Re: Firmfeel steering ?
I dont want to mess with that really I suppose. He did such a grand job and the car tracks true.
I think I am coming round to 'get the current one rebuilt to stop the leaks'.
"Cum homine de cane debeo congredi." Woof.
Current Charger status - "Working !"
Current Charger status - "Working !"
Re: Firmfeel steering ?
unless you can stretch to the borgeson full kit..
in theory it will bolt in its the modern equivalent of getting your standard box rebuilt but with a better ratio
and the only variance from standard in respect to alignment might be a minor difference in how far up the spline of the sector shaft the pitman arm goes or a slight variance in mounting position. that dictates how perpendicular to the ground your cross shaft runs and hence any difference in height above ground between the inner ends of the track rods. (and you run that risk with a rebuilt standard box, anyway, if they don't just rebuild your original)
it may either increase or decrease any minor bump steer you have or alter toe in on one side
any difference could be adjusted out at the idler side but that effects toe in on both sides... i wouldn't bother unless there is an issue as the cars were not built in a precise enough manner for it to have much impact
you will need to identify if you have a fat or thin sector shaft so that anything you buy fits your pitman arm. one has a 1 1/16 inch spline and the fat one has a 1 1/8 inch spline
the parts book at Mymopar for 69 or 69 charger should set your mind at rest as to which you have based on the performance level of your car
if you can't find it i have a copy of the 68 version if you have a google drive i can share it with you its over 100 meg
Dave
in theory it will bolt in its the modern equivalent of getting your standard box rebuilt but with a better ratio
and the only variance from standard in respect to alignment might be a minor difference in how far up the spline of the sector shaft the pitman arm goes or a slight variance in mounting position. that dictates how perpendicular to the ground your cross shaft runs and hence any difference in height above ground between the inner ends of the track rods. (and you run that risk with a rebuilt standard box, anyway, if they don't just rebuild your original)
it may either increase or decrease any minor bump steer you have or alter toe in on one side
any difference could be adjusted out at the idler side but that effects toe in on both sides... i wouldn't bother unless there is an issue as the cars were not built in a precise enough manner for it to have much impact
you will need to identify if you have a fat or thin sector shaft so that anything you buy fits your pitman arm. one has a 1 1/16 inch spline and the fat one has a 1 1/8 inch spline
the parts book at Mymopar for 69 or 69 charger should set your mind at rest as to which you have based on the performance level of your car
if you can't find it i have a copy of the 68 version if you have a google drive i can share it with you its over 100 meg
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
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autofetish
- Posts: 5599
- Joined: Sat May 21, 11 6:43 am
Re: Firmfeel steering ?
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The closer you are to death the more alive you are
Re: Firmfeel steering ?
OOh... Look at all that lovely clearance !
"Cum homine de cane debeo congredi." Woof.
Current Charger status - "Working !"
Current Charger status - "Working !"
Re: Firmfeel steering ?
THere's been a lot of discussion over a few years on Moparts about the Borgeson box.
Some people have no issues, some experience issues either with the 1)axis alignment or 2)clocking of the pitman arm, and the steering column.
The mounting ears/brackets are welded onto the steering box. I'm sure it's strong, and professionally done, but I still don't like the thought of it..
I heard a rumour that Borgeson were working on a custom outer case to accept the internals, which would eliminate any welding issues.
If you're considering using a Borgeson box it might be a good idea to speak to Bergman Autocraft who sell the product and stand behind it.
Some people have no issues, some experience issues either with the 1)axis alignment or 2)clocking of the pitman arm, and the steering column.
The mounting ears/brackets are welded onto the steering box. I'm sure it's strong, and professionally done, but I still don't like the thought of it..
I heard a rumour that Borgeson were working on a custom outer case to accept the internals, which would eliminate any welding issues.
If you're considering using a Borgeson box it might be a good idea to speak to Bergman Autocraft who sell the product and stand behind it.
Re: Firmfeel steering ?
yes there is a Mk 2 version either in the mix or released
not sure what they did but its NEW
previous version was a box for a jeep or some such with ears welded on and a mopar specific spline on sector and input
Dave
not sure what they did but its NEW
previous version was a box for a jeep or some such with ears welded on and a mopar specific spline on sector and input
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Re: Firmfeel steering ?
Agree with the others, if you want to go Borgsen get it from Bergmann - he used to or still does run a Dart and IIIRC used to work for XV before they folded. He understands Mopars, was the guy (abetted IIRC by E-Berg) who came up with the modified Mopar coupler so you don't shear your steering column pins using a U-joint, etc. Talk with him.
I also had heard about the newer version without the welded bit - again check out the discussions on Moparts, has been extensively discussed for years and still is. IIRC (third time!) the welded box was rejected by New Zealand (or Oz?) authorities but i think that was as a point of principle (welding on steering box) rather than based on any known issues. Never heard any report of one failing, though that doesn't prove anything.
I also had heard about the newer version without the welded bit - again check out the discussions on Moparts, has been extensively discussed for years and still is. IIRC (third time!) the welded box was rejected by New Zealand (or Oz?) authorities but i think that was as a point of principle (welding on steering box) rather than based on any known issues. Never heard any report of one failing, though that doesn't prove anything.
Gavin Chisholm - 414ci W2 Stroker SmallBlock Panther Pink '71 Challenger convertible - in bits
Car progress can be viewed here
Car progress can be viewed here
Re: Firmfeel steering ?
offer is till there if you want to try manual steering.....
Dave
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Re: Firmfeel steering ?
Dont think I am built for manual steering.. haha
I think what I have concluded is get the box out as is, find someone to rebuild and stop the leaks. Fit new hoses. Job done...
As always, all the input has been appreciated.
I think what I have concluded is get the box out as is, find someone to rebuild and stop the leaks. Fit new hoses. Job done...
As always, all the input has been appreciated.
"Cum homine de cane debeo congredi." Woof.
Current Charger status - "Working !"
Current Charger status - "Working !"
Re: Firmfeel steering ?
where does it leak from?
bottom seal?
rock auto have the parts but i'd make damn certain via part number that the part they sell you is the right one. their manual box listings are a mess
the parts you need for a manual box are listed as available but are not linked with any mopar. should be easier with a power box more cars had them and the kits of parts are extentensive.
again it comes down to if you box has a fat or thin sector shaft
fat sector on left
bottom seal?
rock auto have the parts but i'd make damn certain via part number that the part they sell you is the right one. their manual box listings are a mess
the parts you need for a manual box are listed as available but are not linked with any mopar. should be easier with a power box more cars had them and the kits of parts are extentensive.
again it comes down to if you box has a fat or thin sector shaft
fat sector on left
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Re: Firmfeel steering ?
Sounds like a plan , just make sure what you are getting, if it is just seals and adjustments etc that may not fix it eg if the problem is worn sector shaft etc.
Gavin Chisholm - 414ci W2 Stroker SmallBlock Panther Pink '71 Challenger convertible - in bits
Car progress can be viewed here
Car progress can be viewed here
Re: Firmfeel steering ?
Never straightforward huh ? Still, we dont choose our loves do we and this Bananarama! car seems to be one of mine.
"Cum homine de cane debeo congredi." Woof.
Current Charger status - "Working !"
Current Charger status - "Working !"
Re: Firmfeel steering ?
they leak from the bottom often due to knackered seal and sealing surface on the sector
when you pull out the old seal you can see the worn section
however the nose of the box usually has enough space to push the seal in deeper so that it runs on new area of the shaft that has been bathed in oil all its life
cover the splines and the ridge with cellotape or something to stop them chewing the seal lip
Timken 6859s for the fat sector box
NAPA/SKF 11067 for the thin sector
search rockauto by part number
Dave
when you pull out the old seal you can see the worn section
however the nose of the box usually has enough space to push the seal in deeper so that it runs on new area of the shaft that has been bathed in oil all its life
cover the splines and the ridge with cellotape or something to stop them chewing the seal lip
Timken 6859s for the fat sector box
NAPA/SKF 11067 for the thin sector
search rockauto by part number
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying