What is a 440 block really worth?

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
SPIKE
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 21 12:57 am

What is a 440 block really worth?

Post by SPIKE »

Hi Guys,

Maybe sounds like a strange question but i am planning an engine build, 440 , stroker at 4 1/4 maybe, but would go less. Sticking to 10 to 1 comp, ish, street use maybe trackday not drags, no nitrous planned, I have the choice of std heads , Edelbrock ally heads or Stage v heads. No rush to build but one must happen.
Now here is the point. I have two stock 440 castings one a 69 and one a 68 i do have two std forged cranks and all the std guts out of them, so do i sell what i have to part finance the project or do i use what i have? I do have a selection of stock pistons both new and used.
First, has what i have any value, the cranks need a regrind and the blocks need a bore but are on std bores, what is the value if anything in this current climate? If i buy in a block from the US what or which do i go for? I am not playing dumb here but have been out of the loop for a while and need guidance / therapy!
I do also have a complete six pack setup on a cast iron manifold, I was told the manifold kills the deal as its not the genuine ally one, now i know this is BS so again does the cast part have any value?
Sorry to sound obtuse with this but i really am at a loss as to which way to jump, the 69 block has just gone to be acid cleaned to try and spark things up.
The build will go in a 69 Coronet with a 4 speed.

Thanks in anticipation.
User avatar
Dave999
Posts: 9427
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 05 10:31 am
Location: Twickenham,London, England

Re: What is a 440 block really worth?

Post by Dave999 »

unless you are buying a new block...you are better with the devil you know...

choose the least messed with, tallest deck, thickest cylinder walled (pop the core plugs and check the gap between the cylinders) block with the thickest bridges from the pan rail to the mains.
check all studs threads etc
use a block that has not been align bored to near extinction to avoid timing chain and rear main seal issues

choose a virgin crank with no regrinding done or keep your new stoker crank sensible

crack test

you are probably then in a better position than with an unknown import or ebay purchase...and you have not tied yourself to a specific KIT to get an aftermarket part to work. you have options in hand
can put in thicker main caps etc

unless of course you are buying a basically NEW engine, in which case get warranty if you can. most warranties only cover the country they were issued in...... the US is particularly bad. once it has left US airspace/waters most warranties are void and you are dependent then on good will, and some operate knowing that you can't afford to send it back.

no idea on value as i have never owned a v8 never mind a massive v8 :)

but i have purchased some supposedly good/perfect but actually bloody awful second hand engines/parts

i learned my lesson....you know, or can find out at your leisure, better than anyone else, the quality or lack of quality of the parts you have, the temptation to go and buy another is massive but it can be just the same as what you have for more outlay and no step forward

you could flog it all for a decent wodge of cash but will it be enough to truly get what you want, a bird in the hand and all that...

if the aim is to buy a specific block designed for stroker applications, you can get the block but that's still a million miles from running engine, the pistons will be shorter and you will want some choice on rod length/ratio so you will probably still end up doing block work...even if its new you will need to consider deck height as part of making your choice of aluminium or iron heads to get the CR/quench clearances right for the combo.

someone who has built a stroker will be along, I'm not UP on if the standard block is robust enough for the size of stroke you mention....
you don't plan to rev it. i guess if its a low/medium rpm torque monster you want it might be ok
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
User avatar
Pete
Posts: 21944
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 04 10:49 pm
Location: MMA Chairman

Re: What is a 440 block really worth?

Post by Pete »

Examine the Blocks you have and if necessary get them chemically cleaned and maybe even pressure tested.
Get them measured accurately and build on the best one. Core shift can be an issue (I have had a block go through on 2 Bores at +0.030" which sounds ridiculous). Not many places have the ability to Sonic check a block these days, but it is a good insurance policy.

There is some truth on the 6 Pak inlet as originally only the A12 cars had Edelbrock Aluminium intakes.

Chrysler then produced them (presumably under License) for 1970 onwards but in cast iron and they weigh about 60lbs - not good for nose weight in an already heavy engine.

I am sure the Aluminium ones are being reproduced now.

6 Pak's are great (I have had 5 of them) but take an awful lot of setting up, and most people can't do it that well.

They almost always over-fuel on idle due to the design of the inlet, so any setting is a compromise.
Pete Wiseman; Cambridge.

Mopar by the grace of God
SPIKE
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 21 12:57 am

Re: What is a 440 block really worth?

Post by SPIKE »

Hi Pete,

Thx for the info. Block is back from an acid dip and all the plugs are out. Initially it looks like a disaster but on closer inspection all is good apart from the main saddles are corroded so will need a line bore with oversize shells (best start searching) , bores look like a 30 over will clean and square them up and a lick all around to square the sides up. There is heavy corrosion around the water outlets but that hopefully is not too deep. First job is crack test and then check for pulled threads, will be very busy.

Spike.
User avatar
Dave999
Posts: 9427
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 05 10:31 am
Location: Twickenham,London, England

Re: What is a 440 block really worth?

Post by Dave999 »

you might not need "oversize on the outside" shells
tends to be a thing in aluminium cases but not usually necessary in cast iron

if you do, King bearings will do some for you but it will cost , there used to be a form on the Israeli site, thats their HQ
can also do a fat thrust face for motors where the case gets trashed by too heavy clutch or inappropriate clutch usage

if its just a standard align bore, they will take smidge off the lower section of the main bearing saddle mounting face, small cut on the register horizontal face to avoid interference with the cap
and a smidge off the face of each cap making the bore a little bit oval, wide at the sides
and then bore it to get a precise top to bottom measurement
side to side should have come in line as you stole 2 smidges of circumference of the circle on each side when the first main saddle and main cap cut was done.

kind like the connecting rod "resize" carry on but on a bigger scale
the result is a standard bore for the bearing on the outside and you choose a common ID for your crank.. standard i'd guess for a stroker

only issue is you move the crank closer to the cam by a fraction of what they took off the bearing saddle face.
align bore many times and the timing chain gets loose and the crank is no longer central in the rear seal housing which doesn't tend to be touched in an align bore. OK with a rope seal not ok with a rubber one and you can't use a rope (gland packing) one without a knurled surface on the crank, which needs to be put in place before it is hardened.

only worth it with standard caps if they still fit tight into the register. if they don't they are stretched and are scrap.

if you are going with big fat aluminium or nodular iron replacements an align bore is a given, you really can't fit them properly without.. unless you are incredibly lucky and exceedingly good at measuring to see all is ok.

the only place i have ever been aware of a no machining main cap swap was a scheme in Australia

country garages, unlikely to have boring bars and machines for cars (trucks and tractors maybe) would be furnished with a box of main caps all slightly random.
if they needed to replace one on a customer engine they chose the one that was the best fit side to side
all were just too tall in the bore by 1 thou
and were then hand finished across the mounting face using some kind of sliding precise tool on a flat plate and some abrasive.

but they also had access to a much wider range of bearing sizes direct from the factory than is available today +0.0005 -0.0005 etc fat one top thin one bottom etc to get it to work swap bearings about in the cap that makes it stiff to turn

Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
User avatar
Dave999
Posts: 9427
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 05 10:31 am
Location: Twickenham,London, England

Re: What is a 440 block really worth?

Post by Dave999 »

PS its worth trying your hardest to keep the cam bearings the block came with
they were fitted undersized and honed precisely and in total in alignment originally

new ones can be a bit of a fight

V8 cam is short in comparison to a 6 cylinder one. shouldn't flex, twist and bow down under spring pressure as much. hence they might be ok

actually acid dipped babbitt coating material might not be ok :)

Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
SPIKE
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 21 12:57 am

Re: What is a 440 block really worth?

Post by SPIKE »

Babbit does dissolve in the acid, i have now got a set of napkin rings!
SPIKE
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 21 12:57 am

Re: What is a 440 block really worth?

Post by SPIKE »

Hi Dave.

What is the dimension of a smidge now we have gone metric? Is it still like a Fag paper or larger? Brexit may have an effect on this!
User avatar
Dave999
Posts: 9427
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 05 10:31 am
Location: Twickenham,London, England

Re: What is a 440 block really worth?

Post by Dave999 »

its directly p[proportional to how much its corroded :)
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Post Reply