It would appear my alternator is not charging the battery.
Tried a new alternator and connected one of the ground terminals to the body the other to regulator.
By-passed the regulator as per youtube vid but still 12v
Followed cable from alternator terminal to bulkhead connector and at some point there has been a short and the cable goes through bulkhead as connector is melted.
On my wiring diagram the cable goes to a splice but I have an ammeter and this does not appear on the diagram.
My car is a 69 Superbee 383
My question is how does the alternator get power to the battery as on more modern systems it goes to the starter then battery.
Any help welcome
Alternator charging
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Alternator charging
I had the same problem on my '66 Fury.
Discovered: http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical ... uges.shtml
I used their diagram, going direct through the fire wall block, bypassing the connectors and all is fine. Have a look at their website
Discovered: http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical ... uges.shtml
I used their diagram, going direct through the fire wall block, bypassing the connectors and all is fine. Have a look at their website
Re: Alternator charging
Thanks for the link I will have a look.
It would be a shame to bypass the amp gauge as the car is so original but needs must
It would be a shame to bypass the amp gauge as the car is so original but needs must
Re: Alternator charging
you have a wire from battery plus connector
and a wire from the alternator
both of which go through the bulkhead into the car
from Batterty + the wire runs to the bulkhead connector and through to what is termed the master splice.
just a big lump of wires crimped with a bit of metal and soldered and wrapped in cling tape in the loom near the middle of the dash...
mine is by the offshoot of wires for the wiper switch.
from the master splice you have wires providing power on to the ignition switch, the headlamp switch(for the dome light) and the area of the fuse box that is always at 12 volts
and a fat wire that goes to the inner connector on the ammeter, to meet with its cousin from the alternator.
you also have a wire from the alternator. it runs to the bulkhead connector it goes through and connects to the other side of the ammeter.
The current it provides comes through the ammeter down the other cable to the master splice and then back out through the bulkhead connector to the battery.
hence all battery charging current comes through the ammeter and master splice and through the bulkhead twice.
you have 2 sources of 12 volts in the car.......battery and alternator. and the wires from each join at the master splice...
your only place where you can disconnect this loop is at the bulkhead or at the ammeter
i suspect that the wire from the alternator is broken at the bulkhead connector
easy method
find it on both sides of the connector
drill right through that connector
pass the inner wire through the hole in the connector.
strip its end and strip the end of the flying end of the wire on the engine side
slip over some heat shrink
solder the 2 together and slide the heat shrink over.
shrink it
stuff it back through the connector leaving what looks like totally standard wire coming out the the bulkhead connector
its fat multi-strand wire so don't twist it
Bananarama! into its partner so the wire strands intertwine and use a small gas soldering iron and big fat lead based solder to make a solder junction no fatter than the wire
if all else is good alternator will again be able to charge the battery because you have now completed the loop again
if this doesn't work there is potentially the same fault in the wire that goes to battery +
the same procedure can be used
you will now have solid wire instead of corroded and resistant bullet connectors in the bulkhead connector block carrying your potentially 35 amps worth of alternator charge current.
everything will work just a little bit better......
other connectors can be used if you don't care what it looks like or you can hide it
i ran around with wickes' finest 40 amp chocky block (power shower and cooker circuit rated) behind the dash for a while. it was to-hand, was the right size, taking wires up to 8 mm diameter, and once covered in Vaseline makes a robust but horrible to look at connection
use thread locker, or bung some epoxy down the holes of the little screws once you know it all works
all under the dash. my bulkhead connector doesn't lend itself to the same fix as yours being a lucas spade modular nylon plug (aussie car)
yours will be 1 or 2 big black phenolic plastic things with bullet connectors in it
if the ammeter works
the wires are on nice and tight.
you have a standard alternator
and the loom isn't melted
don't be messing too much.
its only ever the last 6 inches of a wire or its connector that is at fault
designed to last 5 years still working 50 years later
Dave
Dave
and a wire from the alternator
both of which go through the bulkhead into the car
from Batterty + the wire runs to the bulkhead connector and through to what is termed the master splice.
just a big lump of wires crimped with a bit of metal and soldered and wrapped in cling tape in the loom near the middle of the dash...
mine is by the offshoot of wires for the wiper switch.
from the master splice you have wires providing power on to the ignition switch, the headlamp switch(for the dome light) and the area of the fuse box that is always at 12 volts
and a fat wire that goes to the inner connector on the ammeter, to meet with its cousin from the alternator.
you also have a wire from the alternator. it runs to the bulkhead connector it goes through and connects to the other side of the ammeter.
The current it provides comes through the ammeter down the other cable to the master splice and then back out through the bulkhead connector to the battery.
hence all battery charging current comes through the ammeter and master splice and through the bulkhead twice.
you have 2 sources of 12 volts in the car.......battery and alternator. and the wires from each join at the master splice...
your only place where you can disconnect this loop is at the bulkhead or at the ammeter
i suspect that the wire from the alternator is broken at the bulkhead connector
easy method
find it on both sides of the connector
drill right through that connector
pass the inner wire through the hole in the connector.
strip its end and strip the end of the flying end of the wire on the engine side
slip over some heat shrink
solder the 2 together and slide the heat shrink over.
shrink it
stuff it back through the connector leaving what looks like totally standard wire coming out the the bulkhead connector
its fat multi-strand wire so don't twist it
Bananarama! into its partner so the wire strands intertwine and use a small gas soldering iron and big fat lead based solder to make a solder junction no fatter than the wire
if all else is good alternator will again be able to charge the battery because you have now completed the loop again
if this doesn't work there is potentially the same fault in the wire that goes to battery +
the same procedure can be used
you will now have solid wire instead of corroded and resistant bullet connectors in the bulkhead connector block carrying your potentially 35 amps worth of alternator charge current.
everything will work just a little bit better......
other connectors can be used if you don't care what it looks like or you can hide it
i ran around with wickes' finest 40 amp chocky block (power shower and cooker circuit rated) behind the dash for a while. it was to-hand, was the right size, taking wires up to 8 mm diameter, and once covered in Vaseline makes a robust but horrible to look at connection
use thread locker, or bung some epoxy down the holes of the little screws once you know it all works
all under the dash. my bulkhead connector doesn't lend itself to the same fix as yours being a lucas spade modular nylon plug (aussie car)
yours will be 1 or 2 big black phenolic plastic things with bullet connectors in it
if the ammeter works
the wires are on nice and tight.
you have a standard alternator
and the loom isn't melted
don't be messing too much.
its only ever the last 6 inches of a wire or its connector that is at fault
designed to last 5 years still working 50 years later
Dave
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Re: Alternator charging
Great reply Dave
Today I bypassed the ammeter as per the link in the previous post
Did away with the spade connectors at the bulkhead plug and ran a new wire from the fusible link to the main black wire that goes to the splice.
The original black wire from the alternator had been extended before as the plug had melted as per the link in the other post
The wire from the alternator goes straight to the starter solenoid and to the battery.
I am still only getting 12 volts at the battery or from the alternator.
What next????
Today I bypassed the ammeter as per the link in the previous post
Did away with the spade connectors at the bulkhead plug and ran a new wire from the fusible link to the main black wire that goes to the splice.
The original black wire from the alternator had been extended before as the plug had melted as per the link in the other post
The wire from the alternator goes straight to the starter solenoid and to the battery.
I am still only getting 12 volts at the battery or from the alternator.
What next????
Re: Alternator charging
the alternator is not switching on by the sound of things so it will probably be 1 of 2
1) its an alternator that must have its second small connector connected to a bulb in the dash which completes the field coil circuit to earth. before it will switch on. light glows until alternator up to speed and charging
OR
2) your regulator is having trouble establishing how charged the battery actually is... i.e its broken or the wires are on the wrong way or its not earthed properly. not earthed properly however usually results in over charging
last but not least. alternator is broken. which is unlikely its really quite hard to break an alternator... even if a diode fails you get something
to operate
Fat wire from alternator to battery
alternator bolted to car
thin wire from regulator to a field pin on alternator
need up to 5 volts on the field wire for alternator to be charging, all this wire does is make the spinny bit magnetic
the other end of the field coil in the altenrator will either
1) be earthed to the case inside
2) come up to a second connection, a second small connector on the alternator
It can be, depending on alternator. earthed to the case, or Must be earthed to the car body/dash pod via a bulb..
OR in some cases you just ignore it you can use it or its friend and leave the other disconnected.
if yours has 2 connectors get a headlamp bulb and wire it between the second connector and earth see if things get better
the headlamp bulb is a big restive high power thing so the chances of damage are low
however before doing this look up the wring diagram for your alternator you are looking for a warning light or exciter circuit
if it has one this bulb set up will work. choose a low power dash idiot light bulb and stick it under the dash
a spare ballast resistor may well also do that job. doesn't need to be a bulb, we'd have to work out what the resistance is of a normal dash lamp and get a 10 watt resistor of similar ohms
your bypass process seems legit the reason you go to the starter solenoid is to avoid a mess of 2 fat wires at the battery +
the starter solenoid has a nice stud to mount a ring ended fat wire on top of the already connected fat wire from the battery. its just a nicer less obviously not standard way of doing it
start the car and see if you can measure anything on the field wire. r. do the test with the earth connected and disconnected at the second small connector should be some kind of volts between field wire and earth when the revs are say 1500 rpm.
if your alternator needed a bulb on this connector you may have damaged the regulator by strapping the second connector to earth although it sounds like it was probably the issue before we got this far.
if you can't get any volts there. i suspect the regulator. i say measure volts because even if the field wire connections at the alternator are screwed up the regulator should still be trying to push some current into the field and you should therefor measure some kind of voltage.
PS if its an old mechanical regulator. hit it gently with a hammer 4 times. if its points have welded together or its little flippy flappy armature is stuck that usually frees it all off for a period of time and it works for a few weeks before it does it again
suggest an electronic regulator might be the more modern way to go if you don't have one.
Dave
1) its an alternator that must have its second small connector connected to a bulb in the dash which completes the field coil circuit to earth. before it will switch on. light glows until alternator up to speed and charging
OR
2) your regulator is having trouble establishing how charged the battery actually is... i.e its broken or the wires are on the wrong way or its not earthed properly. not earthed properly however usually results in over charging
last but not least. alternator is broken. which is unlikely its really quite hard to break an alternator... even if a diode fails you get something
to operate
Fat wire from alternator to battery
alternator bolted to car
thin wire from regulator to a field pin on alternator
need up to 5 volts on the field wire for alternator to be charging, all this wire does is make the spinny bit magnetic
the other end of the field coil in the altenrator will either
1) be earthed to the case inside
2) come up to a second connection, a second small connector on the alternator
It can be, depending on alternator. earthed to the case, or Must be earthed to the car body/dash pod via a bulb..
OR in some cases you just ignore it you can use it or its friend and leave the other disconnected.
if yours has 2 connectors get a headlamp bulb and wire it between the second connector and earth see if things get better
the headlamp bulb is a big restive high power thing so the chances of damage are low
however before doing this look up the wring diagram for your alternator you are looking for a warning light or exciter circuit
if it has one this bulb set up will work. choose a low power dash idiot light bulb and stick it under the dash
a spare ballast resistor may well also do that job. doesn't need to be a bulb, we'd have to work out what the resistance is of a normal dash lamp and get a 10 watt resistor of similar ohms
your bypass process seems legit the reason you go to the starter solenoid is to avoid a mess of 2 fat wires at the battery +
the starter solenoid has a nice stud to mount a ring ended fat wire on top of the already connected fat wire from the battery. its just a nicer less obviously not standard way of doing it
start the car and see if you can measure anything on the field wire. r. do the test with the earth connected and disconnected at the second small connector should be some kind of volts between field wire and earth when the revs are say 1500 rpm.
if your alternator needed a bulb on this connector you may have damaged the regulator by strapping the second connector to earth although it sounds like it was probably the issue before we got this far.
if you can't get any volts there. i suspect the regulator. i say measure volts because even if the field wire connections at the alternator are screwed up the regulator should still be trying to push some current into the field and you should therefor measure some kind of voltage.
PS if its an old mechanical regulator. hit it gently with a hammer 4 times. if its points have welded together or its little flippy flappy armature is stuck that usually frees it all off for a period of time and it works for a few weeks before it does it again
suggest an electronic regulator might be the more modern way to go if you don't have one.
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Re: Alternator charging
Great information again Dave
Will have a look just hope the rain stays off
Will have a look just hope the rain stays off
Re: Alternator charging
Right here we go.
I changed the voltage regulator for a new one
Still only 12volts at battery
Many many checks and tests later I found that the unused field terminal was not showing -ve, but the screw holding it was.
I had followed an internet procedure (American) where you remove the plastic insulating washer and thus ground the terminal.
Basically the terminal was not earthed so I ran a wire from the washer pump earth to the second field terminal and hey presto 13 volts on tickover, rising with the revs.
I think my old alternator had given up the ghost and the regulator was okay.
I will probably reinstall the ammeter for originality at a later date once the scars have healed trying to access the wires at the back of the dash when I have all the air con gubbings in the way lol
Many thanks for the help and letting me bounce ideas/thoughts off you 
I changed the voltage regulator for a new one
Still only 12volts at battery
Many many checks and tests later I found that the unused field terminal was not showing -ve, but the screw holding it was.
I had followed an internet procedure (American) where you remove the plastic insulating washer and thus ground the terminal.
Basically the terminal was not earthed so I ran a wire from the washer pump earth to the second field terminal and hey presto 13 volts on tickover, rising with the revs.
I think my old alternator had given up the ghost and the regulator was okay.
I will probably reinstall the ammeter for originality at a later date once the scars have healed trying to access the wires at the back of the dash when I have all the air con gubbings in the way lol
Many thanks for the help and letting me bounce ideas/thoughts off you
Re: Alternator charging
good news
got there in the end
Dave
got there in the end
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying