Self adjusters over adjusting

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Blue
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Self adjusters over adjusting

Post by Blue »

I've spent the last million years removing self adjusters so I have never come across this before. 10" rear brakes on the Barracuda, original backplates with new drums, shoes, cylinders, springs, hold downs and all the self adjusters, handbrake cables are also new. Brakes are correctly adjusted, handbrake is not sticking but ever time I drive the car the rear brakes adjust up the the point they are dragging. Have backed them off several times and it does it again. Can't see any obvious reason for it and googling it doesn't bring up anything useful. Any thoughts before I disable them?
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Pete
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Re: Self adjusters over adjusting

Post by Pete »

I remove self adjusters.....

They should only adjust when travelling in reverse.

I think that whilst they are a much-used and copied item, the are very old technology, generally poor in design and execution, and I can live without them given the mileage the cars are driven.

At the end of the day, most Mopars and especially "A" Bodies are over-braked at the rear, so I would remove them to avoid dragging and damaging the Drum, and just check them periodically - the shoes are not going to wear that much anyway...
Pete Wiseman; Cambridge.

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Blue
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Re: Self adjusters over adjusting

Post by Blue »

Whilst I don't disagree with anything you're saying, there's a million and one cars running around with without this issue and it's bugging me I can't figure it out.
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Pete
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Re: Self adjusters over adjusting

Post by Pete »

Yes, but their owners probably don't check them and are not aware that there is an issue....
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Blue
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Re: Self adjusters over adjusting

Post by Blue »

Such a cynic...
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Pete
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Re: Self adjusters over adjusting

Post by Pete »

Yep, this is a bit like the old joke:

"A man goes to the Doctor and says - Doctor, Doctor, My head hurts when I hit it against the wall....

The doctor replies, - well, don't do it then...."
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mopar_mark
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Re: Self adjusters over adjusting

Post by mopar_mark »

Pete wrote: Fri Nov 27, 20 5:08 pm Yep, this is a bit like the old Tommy Cooper joke:

"A man goes to the Doctor and says - Doctor, Doctor, My head hurts when I hit it against the wall....

The doctor replies, - well, don't do it then...."
Fixed it :D
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Pete
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Re: Self adjusters over adjusting

Post by Pete »

Showing your age, Mark.

I first heard it from a Canadian Consultant at work!!!
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Adam
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Re: Self adjusters over adjusting

Post by Adam »

I had this on my old Satellite. I think the issue was that the the ratchet thingy wasn't making proper contact with the star wheel? But then I probably installed it incorrectly, and I know you wouldn't do that!
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Blue
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Re: Self adjusters over adjusting

Post by Blue »

My best guess is the star wheel operates too freely leading to over adjustment, I could experiment with making it a little stiffer to turn but I'm not willing to put any more time into it right now so I've just ordered the parts to convert to manual adjustment. I might revisit it one day if I get really, really bored...
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Dave999
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Re: Self adjusters over adjusting

Post by Dave999 »

are the shoes new? and are they round? how are they retained?

does the shoe sit square with the backing plate or are the return springs pulling them out and towards each other meaning the inner edge drags on the drum?

i ran around on mine with them backed off considerably for a week or 2
then looked at each to see which bits had been worn down a bit, both ends, and chuff all in the middle. with friction in just a small area they got very hot
i toyed with taking them off and adjusting them with the linishing belt as the chances of finding a hub mount brake shoe cutting and centering thing
(usually used for 2 strokes with drum brakes....scooters of the Italian variety mainly) was low, and i didn't fancy taking off and putting them on again for the reasons i get into later.

but in the end I left them adjusted badly for 6 months and they eventually wore down to full contact.. i then adjusted them properly

i have had this problem with adjusters and without

with adjusters is worse.

without was intermittent adjust properly cold. no issue, short run, no issue, long run with much braking and the drag was noticeable as soon as you pulled up or pulled away and the drums got very very very hot.

other things
1) brake shoes should have a rubbing bit on the side that sits on the back plate. some of them don't and wear a ridge in the back plate that can hold the shoes in a place they don't need to be.


2) the springs between the shoes can be to sloppy or too tight. my current set were so tight that they could overcome the retainers that hold the shoes to the back plate meaning the shoes sat off the back plate with the fiction surface no longer parallel with the plane of the axle or perpendicular to back plate, hence the inner edge of each dragged on the drum. so i gave up on the 1960s spring and square based hook set-up and used the post 73 spring, pin, and twist retainer, with a washer on each pin head so it didn't fall through the hole in the back plate, normally used by the square base hook.

used Pin then shoe, then spring, then press and twist retainer, to sort that out, a spring both sides of the shoe "fin" was considered but isn't how its done in the manual.

both issues kept me amused for a good while but i though i was just being a bit crap or it was my mix n match of US parts (i'd rather pay $7 for a fitting kit than $30) on Aussie 9 inch drums so didn't air my trials on here...

glad its not just me.... nearly drove me mad for good 6 months

Raybestos 73---> fitting kit was the stuff that worked


avoid these https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... GL%2F7Y%3D



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MilesnMiles
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Re: Self adjusters over adjusting

Post by MilesnMiles »

I had an adjuster rear brake issue with my RR. Would grab dangerously under hard braking. On inspection someone had fitted the wrong side adjuster as they are handed for each side. Correct part sorted it.
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Birdman
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Re: Self adjusters over adjusting

Post by Birdman »

As Miles posted, are they handed? If fitted to incorrect side , could explain that they adjust in forward motion not in reverse as Pete said. Chris
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Blue
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Re: Self adjusters over adjusting

Post by Blue »

All the mounting hardware is new and has the correct tension, I will check for any odd wear pattern on the shoes when the parts arrive next week.
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Blue
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Re: Self adjusters over adjusting

Post by Blue »

In case anybody cares, I swapped out the self adjusters for manual Today. I couldn't find a listing for my 10.5" brakes so ordered for 11". The adjusters were about 1/4" longer so shortened to suit. The manual adjusters have less teeth so that the spring sits between them to maintain adjustment. I also noticed the manual springs are much stiffer so should more positively retract the shoes, which by the way have no odd wear pattern. Won't be able to road test until the winter upgrades are finished.
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