Engine build help 318

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Dave999
Posts: 9427
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 05 10:31 am
Location: Twickenham,London, England

Re: Engine build help 318

Post by Dave999 »

PPS
its only a bodge if you deliberately choose to use parts that are too far gone, if you replace everything that is worn..bring it all back to stock clearances
balance it all up....
you have made Mr Bodge homeless, and have an asset that is worth something, build diary and photos to back up your claim
eminently saleable to recoup some ££ for your BIG BUILD.
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
User avatar
TIB3300
Posts: 608
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 17 10:14 am
Location: Sheffield

Re: Engine build help 318

Post by TIB3300 »

Dave999 wrote: Tue Nov 24, 20 11:22 am PPS
its only a bodge if you deliberately choose to use parts that are too far gone, if you replace everything that is worn..bring it all back to stock clearances
balance it all up....
you have made Mr Bodge homeless, and have an asset that is worth something, build diary and photos to back up your claim
eminently saleable to recoup some ££ for your BIG BUILD.
Cheers mr :thumbright:

Stripped it today and as suspected one of the mains has wear..

Well you were spot on Dave with your bodge job,, and streched shells, some are like this and some fit . If you hadnt told me I would have been thinking what the fukc :-k
Attachments
IMG_20201127_152833457.jpg
IMG_20201127_152833457.jpg (53.75 KiB) Viewed 1192 times
IMG_20201127_152841872.jpg
IMG_20201127_152841872.jpg (51.68 KiB) Viewed 1192 times
IMG_20201127_152942734.jpg
IMG_20201127_152942734.jpg (58.18 KiB) Viewed 1192 times
IMG_20201127_153407873.jpg
IMG_20201127_153407873.jpg (72.04 KiB) Viewed 1192 times
User avatar
TIB3300
Posts: 608
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 17 10:14 am
Location: Sheffield

Re: Engine build help 318

Post by TIB3300 »

I also have a pink conrod
Attachments
IMG_20201127_134738539.jpg
IMG_20201127_134738539.jpg (104.16 KiB) Viewed 1190 times
User avatar
Pete
Posts: 21944
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 04 10:49 pm
Location: MMA Chairman

Re: Engine build help 318

Post by Pete »

Yep, that's got a bit hot..

Check Bores for wear, ovality and taper. Ditto Crank but that's heading for a regrind anyway (or replacement).

V8's MUST be rebalanced if any of the rotating assembly is replaced.

Include Damper, pulley, Flex Plate, etc when balancing - make sure stuff has not been mixed up with parts from an externally balanced engine... same applies to the Convertor....

I am rebuilding a BBC for my own use.
The Block and heads will be hot tanked, probably pressure tested before any build, cam bearings and core plugs and gallery plugs removed and changed.

You have easily done about £700 before you have even started!!!
Pete Wiseman; Cambridge.

Mopar by the grace of God
User avatar
Dave999
Posts: 9427
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 05 10:31 am
Location: Twickenham,London, England

Re: Engine build help 318

Post by Dave999 »

so the bearings are buggered. that's kinda expected i can't help felling if they wern't the motor would still be in a car

the worry is if the main bearing caps are loose in the register you have a problem. you can't just swap in any more without an align bore, or lottery winners luck. **
so with the crank out and the bearings pulled out fit each one back in place on the block and check it takes some effort to seat them. if you have to tap them into place GOOD. if they just fall in an out NOT good

put em all in and torque to spec and measure the bore. 5 or 6 times each as many decimal places as you can and average

but that looks like its been treated badly. the main bearing shells are marked and pitted n scored all over

that pinky orange rod.... if it is paint god knows why..... crazy people been in there.

if its copper plate someone has tried to do some kind of reclaim action on the rod to bring some dimension closer to what it should be...
or its a novel way to add weight but how much does a few microns of copper weigh?? :)

it doesn't mean the rod is knackered but it might show as being worse than the rest when checked
specific size for the bore measured top to bottom. it will be slightly wider at the sides and it must provide a specific amount of crush clamping to the bearing shells.

3 routes here

1) telescopic bore gauge tool and a micrometer. measure, lots of times and take average (acceptable)
2) bore gauge set to mid point of size tolerance and measure how it varies (most accurate) +x thou or - x thou from standard size
3) wait until later once crank re ground and new bearings purchased and use 3 strips of plastiguage across 180* of the crank journal, put on cap and see how it squishes (ok but not ideal)

if out of tolerance the rods need doing on a rod resizing machine. they will basically machine off a couple of thou from the faces of cap and rod until the top to bottom distance in the rod bore is on the middle of the size tolerance in the book when torqued to spec for the bolts used.

crank will be hard to say i'd suggest a regrind is most likely if you can feel any of those marks with a fingernail definite, if its all just staining and the journals are round its a polish but it looks like a regrind to me

you will need your micrometer or at a digital verniers to measure the crank, each journal in 3 places round the journal to look for out of round

rod journals get hammered top and bottom.

you can polish a crank at home, but nobody does anymore. involves a long leather lace and a range of wet-n-dry cut into strips soaked in diesel.
wrap a journal with a strip and overlap the end. wrap the wrapped journal in a number of turns of lace. pull hard and down, the way that doesn't unwrap your abrasive , to drive it round, return to do it again with a loose pull back. 1500 to 2000+ wt n dry
works fine if you ding a journal on assembly as well, to remove high spots from the edge of the scratch or minor dent

obviously only useful if the crank is round and its better done with the crank bolted to flywheel and standing up so you can move round it each pull to avoid making it not round..

check main caps
clean crank and rods
measure best you can to get an idea of what the challenge will involve

i think your motor was rebuilt in the 70s 80s due to copper plated bits..... and has lead a long high mileage life since, but its hard to tell in photos. the fact the the bearings look so horrible perhaps indicates overheating and lack of oil.... almost like a near seize or a lot of crap went through.
if it was a seize i'd expect bearing material smeared on the crank

others may have a different view they will have seen more bearings in various states

what are the rod bearings like i'd expect to see copper based on what can be seen on the mains

either way in my opinion its been run with filthy oil or a crap filter for a long time

or the bearings have sat in a nasty acidic or caustic mix of old oil water and fuel

Dave




** chrylser in Oz used to do a block reclaim kit it was a set of main caps where the bore was offset by 0.0005 thou one way or the other you would then match with new bearings doing combinations of caps up to torque and turning the crank. you went with the set that allowed the crank to turn at less than xxx Nms of torque with a specific grade of oil as lube. allowed outback service agents to do more extensive repairs without needing an expensive boring bar set up for just a specific motor. once the side to side stuff was sorted you dealt with the face of the cap on your conrod machine to achieve clearance top to bottom. obviously a bent crank would be an issue.

dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
User avatar
Dave999
Posts: 9427
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 05 10:31 am
Location: Twickenham,London, England

Re: Engine build help 318

Post by Dave999 »

ha pete beat me to it

i shouldn't spend so long chuntering on ...
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
User avatar
Dave999
Posts: 9427
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 05 10:31 am
Location: Twickenham,London, England

Re: Engine build help 318

Post by Dave999 »

PS any of the service manuals from 1967 onwards should cover off a 318

mymopar site has a lot for download there is a page of size specs and torque settings at the beginning of each motor's section

print it out big and stick it on the wall by your bench or stand

Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
User avatar
TIB3300
Posts: 608
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 17 10:14 am
Location: Sheffield

Re: Engine build help 318

Post by TIB3300 »

Cheers Dave :thumbright:

It looks like plan B :?

As I had a look at some of the bits removed yesterday,, fkuc me :banghead:

It looks like two of the pistons have been kicked round the yard, then hammerd in to a hole they didnt want to go in :violent1:
Attachments
IMG_20201128_151450838.jpg
IMG_20201128_151450838.jpg (110.54 KiB) Viewed 1171 times
IMG_20201128_151504554.jpg
IMG_20201128_151504554.jpg (98.4 KiB) Viewed 1171 times
IMG_20201128_151522279.jpg
IMG_20201128_151522279.jpg (81.72 KiB) Viewed 1171 times
IMG_20201128_151529046.jpg
IMG_20201128_151529046.jpg (100.64 KiB) Viewed 1171 times
IMG_20201128_151545904.jpg
IMG_20201128_151545904.jpg (96.29 KiB) Viewed 1171 times
IMG_20201128_151550333.jpg
IMG_20201128_151550333.jpg (91.62 KiB) Viewed 1171 times
IMG_20201128_151600284.jpg
IMG_20201128_151600284.jpg (84.61 KiB) Viewed 1171 times
IMG_20201128_151617168.jpg
IMG_20201128_151617168.jpg (94.42 KiB) Viewed 1171 times
IMG_20201128_151644569.jpg
IMG_20201128_151644569.jpg (107.87 KiB) Viewed 1171 times
User avatar
ScottyDave
Posts: 1614
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 15 9:38 pm
Location: Dave Evans: MMA 130, Worcestershire

Re: Engine build help 318

Post by ScottyDave »

Oooo that doesn't look good. Going be a little bit more than a quick refresh.
73 Charger 318
MMA-130
User avatar
TIB3300
Posts: 608
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 17 10:14 am
Location: Sheffield

Re: Engine build help 318

Post by TIB3300 »

ScottyDave wrote: Sat Nov 28, 20 4:29 pm Oooo that doesn't look good. Going be a little bit more than a quick refresh.
Yes your right 8-[

I have admitted defeat with this engine, Its plan B

I don't know if you remember? I also bought another engine from Leeds that had been partly build with new parts including cam' rings' shells' and now I can see new timing chain and sprockets.
I also took a cap off and the crank looks great.

So plan B is to build this engine instead.

I am going to sell / get rid of the engine from US as its just annoying me now and If I was to build that engine and something happened !!!! :runaway!: :woohoo: :runaway!:

Plan B
Attachments
IMG_20200627_171836146.jpg
IMG_20200627_171836146.jpg (114.63 KiB) Viewed 1157 times
IMG_20201128_120340021.jpg
IMG_20201128_120340021.jpg (70.68 KiB) Viewed 1157 times
User avatar
Dave999
Posts: 9427
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 05 10:31 am
Location: Twickenham,London, England

Re: Engine build help 318

Post by Dave999 »

don't worry mate, i've been there..

at least all the pistons came from the same set and manufacturer...... i had 5 mopar and a chevy 6 piston cut down :)

makes the link to £150 for pistons and rings look good huh.....?

if the block crank and rods are good??.... well its up to you... what looks very bad on day one sometimes hides some pretty good parts

but it look like something went into the chamber ate some pistons and sprinkled the rest through the motor...


Dave
Last edited by Dave999 on Mon Nov 30, 20 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: can't spell
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
User avatar
Trigger_Andy
Posts: 7867
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 04 10:27 pm
Location: Stavanger, Norway

Re: Engine build help 318

Post by Trigger_Andy »

TIB3300 wrote: Fri Nov 27, 20 4:22 pm I also have a pink conrod
Ah, one of the fabled Copper Coated Con-Rods. :D There is a huge thread on why these Rods where Copper Coated on FABO.com
I'm here because Im not all there!!

Save the tree's.........Burn Rubber!!
User avatar
Dave999
Posts: 9427
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 05 10:31 am
Location: Twickenham,London, England

Re: Engine build help 318

Post by Dave999 »

yeah you can add 1-2 thou i think provided you plate it with the cap on torqued

if you don't, than what you add to the bearing surface you also add to the cap/rod interface. give with 1 hand and take away with the other ...

i guess it might be factory but i assumed it was bodgery

Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
User avatar
Trigger_Andy
Posts: 7867
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 04 10:27 pm
Location: Stavanger, Norway

Re: Engine build help 318

Post by Trigger_Andy »

Dave999 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 20 1:40 pm yeah you can add 1-2 thou i think provided you plate it with the cap on torqued

if you don't, than what you add to the bearing surface you also add to the cap/rod interface. give with 1 hand and take away with the other ...

i guess it might be factory but i assumed it was bodgery

Dave
Going by the FABO website its almost certainly factory. Supposedly a way of saving Rods that where a few thou out.
I'm here because Im not all there!!

Save the tree's.........Burn Rubber!!
User avatar
TIB3300
Posts: 608
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 17 10:14 am
Location: Sheffield

Re: Engine build help 318

Post by TIB3300 »

Dave999 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 20 9:11 am don't worry mate, i've been there..
at least all the pistons came from the same set and manufacturer...... i had 5 mopar and a chevy 6 piston cut down :)
makes the link to £150 for pistons and rings look good huh.....?
if the block crank and rods are good??.... well its up to you... what looks very bad on day one sometimes hides some pretty good parts
but it look like something went into the chamber ate some pistons and sprinkled the rest through the motor...
Dave
Morning Dave
I cant go near that engine now, [-( so its on with the half built engine. I now have the pistons out and the crank looks great \:D/

This engine came with a new cam aswell as other things.

Question to all?

Should I buy roller hydraulic tappets?
If so what brand are good? not silly priced racing stuff just good.


https://webp.cqggedm.com/image/catalog/ ... ormat,webp

Or stick with the normal ones? again if so? where and what brand ?
Thanks
Last edited by TIB3300 on Wed Dec 02, 20 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply