Hi all,
So, as the days shorten and the temperature starts to drop, my mind turns to things that need doing over the winter months.
I love driving my Chally, but the bloody squeaking is driving me crazy !!!
I've looked online for a replacement bushing set and have found them from £120 - £700, the latter of which I cannot afford. All of them seem to be located stateside, so you have to factor in postage and clearance.
Firstly, can these be found as a set in the UK at an affordable price, and secondly, is there one you'd have/ one you'd definitely avoid ?
Also, can I replace all of these bushings using jacks and jack stands or will I need a tower lift ?
Also, I'm guessing it'd be sensible to replace the shocks and perhaps add a leaf to rear springs at the same time ?
Any links to previous projects, suggested mechanics/workshops and any advice highly appreciated
Thanks
Garp
New bushing kit suggestions please.
Moderator: Moderators
New bushing kit suggestions please.
Aerodynamics are for people who can�t build engines
OK
if you are doing the front suspension I'd get onto rockauto.com
and buy moog rubber stuff
2 lower
4 upper arm Bushes
2 strut rod bushes
2 lower bump stops (any brand)
two upper bump stops (any brand
before you start inspect and grease
upper and lower balljoints
track rod ends.
while under the car hold the wheels and get someone to rattle the steering back and forth
look for flexing in the pitman arm and track rod ends.
while you are at it get some seals for the torsion bars
the rubber ones that come with new circlips are best but any will do
if you do buy track rod ends try to get grease able
same with ball joints.
squeaking will be worn out lower control arm bushes
remember do nothing up tight until the car is at ride height with the wheels on the ground.
lower and upper bushes with the stud or bolts tightened with the wheels at full droop, car on stands, will be destroyed by the time the wheels eventually rest at ride height.
the angle they flex through in normal suspension travel is small. hence they last.
if you do them up when the suspension is in a position it rarely ever sees. they exist in a twisted state once the car is on its wheels and will rip apart very quickly.
if you want to go with poly bushes
only do the top. anti sway bar and rear springs.
Dave
if you are doing the front suspension I'd get onto rockauto.com
and buy moog rubber stuff
2 lower
4 upper arm Bushes
2 strut rod bushes
2 lower bump stops (any brand)
two upper bump stops (any brand
before you start inspect and grease
upper and lower balljoints
track rod ends.
while under the car hold the wheels and get someone to rattle the steering back and forth
look for flexing in the pitman arm and track rod ends.
while you are at it get some seals for the torsion bars
the rubber ones that come with new circlips are best but any will do
if you do buy track rod ends try to get grease able
same with ball joints.
squeaking will be worn out lower control arm bushes
remember do nothing up tight until the car is at ride height with the wheels on the ground.
lower and upper bushes with the stud or bolts tightened with the wheels at full droop, car on stands, will be destroyed by the time the wheels eventually rest at ride height.
the angle they flex through in normal suspension travel is small. hence they last.
if you do them up when the suspension is in a position it rarely ever sees. they exist in a twisted state once the car is on its wheels and will rip apart very quickly.
if you want to go with poly bushes
only do the top. anti sway bar and rear springs.
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Cheers DAVE,
That seems concise enough. Would you rate rubber over poly or are they just better priced ?
Also, do all these specific points have torque settings or just snug-up when at ride level and on the ground ( which is going to be a pain in the arse to do without having a pit )!
Having consulted the manuals - do I need specific pullers for removal ?
.... also, are you getting direct from RA or using an importer ? I always find the UK taxation to be crippling !
That seems concise enough. Would you rate rubber over poly or are they just better priced ?
Also, do all these specific points have torque settings or just snug-up when at ride level and on the ground ( which is going to be a pain in the arse to do without having a pit )!
Having consulted the manuals - do I need specific pullers for removal ?
.... also, are you getting direct from RA or using an importer ? I always find the UK taxation to be crippling !
Aerodynamics are for people who can�t build engines
I'd go rubber
just because the rubber is bonded to the inner and outer of each bush
when you see a lower bush and how the lower arm is held on I think rubber is the best bet. the ploy bush isn't bonded at all it just sits between inner and outer or the inner part of the bush rides on the pin (dependent on style) that means the arm can move back and forth at its inner end with the application of the brakes when reversing, using the strut rod as a pivot point.
that in my opinion is not good
the torsion bars are held in with a spring clip. it sits in the end of the housing, there is quite a gap before the torsion bar end. the bar is basically held in by friction so the help the rubber bush gives the combined pin/lower arm/torsion bar isn't to be underestimated.
uppers rubber....because I don't want to crack the upper control arm mounts. this is based on Australian cars and what they experienced with rubber when new, rather than US cars with Poly bushes.
If an Aussie can break the upper arm mounts with rubber within 3 years of purchasing the car My view is a harder bush is going to make matters worse. hence I went rubber.
really need the book for the torque
the strut rods....3 types but you car will have one of two types
the two types you should be concerned about
1) strut rod that takes a nylock or lock nut that has no split pin hole
2) strut rod that takes a semi castle nut that has a split pin
1) you need strut rod bushes with a metal center sleeve and you do the nut up TIGHT against the sleave if the strut rod has no split pin hole. the nut must be the original (slightly domed top thread is pressed in) or some kind of lock nut
2) you use bushes without the sleeve and you do the nut up to the point where you can get the split pin in for a split pin rod
or
you buy a moog set which have both the sleeve and a split pin
which is what I did. and I used both with no problem.
don't worry all types for your car will work just use the right bits.
the 3rd type is an A body rod which you won't have......
bottom arms have a specific torque which is just very very tight (once at ride height hand tight until then)
upper arms have a specific torque which just isn't tight enough you end up having to put another 20 ft/lb onto the 65 or whatever they state.
you will need a jack handle or crow bar to splay the upper mount slightly to drop the arms in, same with the idler arm. because the last person will have done them extremely tight and will have crushed the mount.
to be honest you do this once every ten years so you may as well do the lot
I found individual ebay and US purchases cost less than a kit and gained me New old stock where it mattered (ball-joints). don't buy New old stock rubber bushes. they have a shelf life.
Rockauto does all the customs stuff for you just make sure you order all the parts from the same warehouse. if you don't you will spend more on postage than the products cost.
keep in mind also that plenty run poly bushes and have done for years with no detrimental effect.
firmfeel even do solid nylon bushes
some upper arms have rod ends instead of bushes
I just tend to take the attitude that none of the companies producing that stuff had the development budget or indeed the customer feedback/warranty claims of a big company like Chrysler.
I might but cutting off my nose to spite my face
Dave
just because the rubber is bonded to the inner and outer of each bush
when you see a lower bush and how the lower arm is held on I think rubber is the best bet. the ploy bush isn't bonded at all it just sits between inner and outer or the inner part of the bush rides on the pin (dependent on style) that means the arm can move back and forth at its inner end with the application of the brakes when reversing, using the strut rod as a pivot point.
that in my opinion is not good
the torsion bars are held in with a spring clip. it sits in the end of the housing, there is quite a gap before the torsion bar end. the bar is basically held in by friction so the help the rubber bush gives the combined pin/lower arm/torsion bar isn't to be underestimated.
uppers rubber....because I don't want to crack the upper control arm mounts. this is based on Australian cars and what they experienced with rubber when new, rather than US cars with Poly bushes.
If an Aussie can break the upper arm mounts with rubber within 3 years of purchasing the car My view is a harder bush is going to make matters worse. hence I went rubber.
really need the book for the torque
the strut rods....3 types but you car will have one of two types
the two types you should be concerned about
1) strut rod that takes a nylock or lock nut that has no split pin hole
2) strut rod that takes a semi castle nut that has a split pin
1) you need strut rod bushes with a metal center sleeve and you do the nut up TIGHT against the sleave if the strut rod has no split pin hole. the nut must be the original (slightly domed top thread is pressed in) or some kind of lock nut
2) you use bushes without the sleeve and you do the nut up to the point where you can get the split pin in for a split pin rod
or
you buy a moog set which have both the sleeve and a split pin
which is what I did. and I used both with no problem.
don't worry all types for your car will work just use the right bits.
the 3rd type is an A body rod which you won't have......
bottom arms have a specific torque which is just very very tight (once at ride height hand tight until then)
upper arms have a specific torque which just isn't tight enough you end up having to put another 20 ft/lb onto the 65 or whatever they state.
you will need a jack handle or crow bar to splay the upper mount slightly to drop the arms in, same with the idler arm. because the last person will have done them extremely tight and will have crushed the mount.
to be honest you do this once every ten years so you may as well do the lot
I found individual ebay and US purchases cost less than a kit and gained me New old stock where it mattered (ball-joints). don't buy New old stock rubber bushes. they have a shelf life.
Rockauto does all the customs stuff for you just make sure you order all the parts from the same warehouse. if you don't you will spend more on postage than the products cost.
keep in mind also that plenty run poly bushes and have done for years with no detrimental effect.
firmfeel even do solid nylon bushes
some upper arms have rod ends instead of bushes
I just tend to take the attitude that none of the companies producing that stuff had the development budget or indeed the customer feedback/warranty claims of a big company like Chrysler.
I might but cutting off my nose to spite my face
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
you can get away with no pullers if you are lucky
1) the lower shock mount is a press fit shanked bolt, it goes in 1 way. undo the nut to the point where it covers the end of the threads on the bolt and hit it with a bloody big hammer
2) take the full drag link pitman and idler off in one go
undo all nuts. crack the outer track rod eyes with a big hammer.
you will need a puller for the pitman arm. they either fall off or take much pulling. nothing in between.
then rest the link section next to each taper on a brick and hit it with a bloody big hammer.
its the percussive smack on both sides of the eye that cracks the taper out
upper and lower
1) take off the brake caliper
2) undo the upper and lower balljoint nuts by 1 turn each
3) use the spring tension in the suspension and a bloody big hammer. Crack each knuckle eye with the hammer. other wise use the GOOD style bolt/clamp style splitter smack it on tension bolt and hit the eye with a bloody big hammer
4) then undo the torsion bar adjuster to relax the suspension
5 take lower arm and strut rod off car in 1 bit. do not loose strut rod bushes down hole in side of K frame...you will never get them out
always aim to try to keep the seals in 1 piece they are expensive and are way better than the rubber boots you can get these days NOS joints with NOS rubber and plastic Seals are the way to go not some balloon Bananarama! held on with a key ring metal clip.
Dave
1) the lower shock mount is a press fit shanked bolt, it goes in 1 way. undo the nut to the point where it covers the end of the threads on the bolt and hit it with a bloody big hammer
2) take the full drag link pitman and idler off in one go
undo all nuts. crack the outer track rod eyes with a big hammer.
you will need a puller for the pitman arm. they either fall off or take much pulling. nothing in between.
then rest the link section next to each taper on a brick and hit it with a bloody big hammer.
its the percussive smack on both sides of the eye that cracks the taper out
upper and lower
1) take off the brake caliper
2) undo the upper and lower balljoint nuts by 1 turn each
3) use the spring tension in the suspension and a bloody big hammer. Crack each knuckle eye with the hammer. other wise use the GOOD style bolt/clamp style splitter smack it on tension bolt and hit the eye with a bloody big hammer
4) then undo the torsion bar adjuster to relax the suspension
5 take lower arm and strut rod off car in 1 bit. do not loose strut rod bushes down hole in side of K frame...you will never get them out
always aim to try to keep the seals in 1 piece they are expensive and are way better than the rubber boots you can get these days NOS joints with NOS rubber and plastic Seals are the way to go not some balloon Bananarama! held on with a key ring metal clip.
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Another vote for rubber on the front for much the same reasons as Dave. I have used poly before and I wasn't impressed, strut rod bushes just plain don't fit in some instances, oh and the whole lot often starts squeaking after a while.
“This ain’t no party, this ain’t no disco, this ain’t no foolin’ around”
You probably will ! We did our Challenger twice after the first lot ripped apart then the second set suddenly started squeeking on the passenger side.... we just squirted in a fair bit of WD40 and its been fine since. Definitely use rubber though as polybushes will give a harsh ride.Garp wrote:Cheers -rubber it is after all the graft listed, if I hear one bloody squeak .....
Getting the old bushes out is a right battle hacking out the old rubber and sawing through the metal sleeves. Never been successful at pressing them out and I'm fairly sure you'd need a hydraulic press to get the new lower inner bushes back in. We've a Machine Mart 10t press and it makes the job a lot easier.
Pretty sure I have a complete spare set of bushes and ball joints here in Bristol I could sell if you are interested. Although they were for my 70 Roadrunner they are the same for the Challenger I believe.
1970 Challenger 383 MMA-074
1968 Charger 440 MMA-80
1968 Charger 440 MMA-80
Cheers for that - WD40 instead of grease ?raven68 wrote:You probably will ! We did our Challenger twice after the first lot ripped apart then the second set suddenly started squeeking on the passenger side.... we just squirted in a fair bit of WD40 and its been fine since. Definitely use rubber though as polybushes will give a harsh ride.Garp wrote:Cheers -rubber it is after all the graft listed, if I hear one bloody squeak .....
Getting the old bushes out is a right battle hacking out the old rubber and sawing through the metal sleeves. Never been successful at pressing them out and I'm fairly sure you'd need a hydraulic press to get the new lower inner bushes back in. We've a Machine Mart 10t press and it makes the job a lot easier.
Pretty sure I have a complete spare set of bushes and ball joints here in Bristol I could sell if you are interested. Although they were for my 70 Roadrunner they are the same for the Challenger I believe.
Also, I'm guessing that this whole affair can't be done with the car on jackstands as there is no space for the arm-leverage you need ?
What would you ask for your bushing set ? Winter is coming annd I gotta get my **** together !
Cheers
Aerodynamics are for people who can�t build engines
Thanks again wise one - i'd naturally have thought to grease em up !Dave999 wrote:Id suggest you don't want anything oil/petrol/grease based near rubber stuff used in bushes. it makes the rubber soft and it ends up going spongy and perished
Dave
Like having Yoda on your team !!!!
Aerodynamics are for people who can�t build engines