Rob & Stu's 69 Sport Satellite

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RobTwin
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Re: Rob & Stu's 69 Sport Satellite

Post by RobTwin »

morgan wrote: Fri Jul 10, 20 11:04 pm LOVING this thread - i had missed this update.
Had no idea you had so much hassle - i saw the engine in if course but sort of assumed ‘wow - thats awesome’ but hadnt twigged the pain.
Converter i knew about but options were arill open.
I went for a 2400 i think - but i actually think i should have gone higher. But then i still have 3.23 - i really want 3.55 or maybe 3.91 - but its wayyy down the list. Milder cam first.

I cant believe the numbers your engine pulls - i think thats wonderful for a ‘street’ build. When you finish on the niggles thats going to Be an awesome drive.
Thanks Morgan, I'm glad someone's paying attention :)
Part of the plan is to get it on a rolling road when it's all sorted just to see how realistic Koffel's number are. A few people have said it's more like a 500-550hp spec. Which, tbh, is all we were expecting :-k
TCI's choice was based solely on the torque figure that Koffel gave them, saying that the one they supplied - their Ultimate Streetfighter - was needed for that torque and was right for a street-driven car with only occasional strip use. The Ultimate Streetfighter only comes with one choice of stall unfortunately.
So if their figures turn out to be 'optimistic', as most people have suggested, not only will we have been supplied the wrong converter but will have paid $910 for the privilege :roll:
The Hughes one I ordered was $422 + $99 shipping. Hopefully we can get some money back on the TCI when we swap them over... coming to a For Sale section near you soon... ;)
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morgan
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Re: Rob & Stu's 69 Sport Satellite

Post by morgan »

I tied myself up in knots a bit when TC buying. It is supposed to be very scientific but felt 'black art' to me - I had all the details that people said I would need but I still ended up slightly 'under' - with hindsight my 2400 should maybe have been 2800. I mean its fine, car drives fine, goes well but I definitely underestimated lumpy-cam-on-the-street.

I'd be interested in a road trip when you are rolling roading - mine needs setting up properly - I keep meaning to give Thunder Road a call. Where did you have in mind for rollers ?
"Cum homine de cane debeo congredi." Woof.

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RobTwin
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Re: Rob & Stu's 69 Sport Satellite

Post by RobTwin »

At the risk of spoiling the story and giving away the ending, I predict a return visit to RPM at some point (hopefully) in the near future, so we were intending to use Surrey Rolling Road who are in fact in Hampshire now, only a mile or two from RPM.
As far as I know they dont get too involved in tuning but I may be wrong there.
As for converter choice, yes our 2500 may be a bit low, certainly according to the US 'experts', but at worst it may cause slightly more sluggish starts and cause the rpm to drop more when going into gear from neutral, but we feel both of these are more liveable than the slippage we get with the 3800 we have now.

I spoke to Glyn Biggs last week, whose 68 Charger has won Stock Appearing at the Nats for the last few years (since Ash Rawson retired his GTX) and asked what converter he has. It's the same as Matt Snowball has in his 'sleeper' Coronet (see build thread elsewhere 8-) ).
It's a Dynamic Converters 'dual stall' converter that's supposed to stall at 2000 when driving carefully and 4000 when racing. Glyn said his ET's dropped 2-tenths since fitting it :shock:
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mopar_mark
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Re: Rob & Stu's 69 Sport Satellite

Post by mopar_mark »

RobTwin wrote: Sun Jul 12, 20 2:03 amSo we were intending to use Surrey Rolling Road who are in fact in Hampshire now, only a mile or two from RPM.
As far as I know they dont get too involved in tuning but I may be wrong there.
That was the case when I used Surrey Rolling Road when they were down in Longcross, still very helpful
"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."
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RobTwin
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Re: Rob & Stu's 69 Sport Satellite

Post by RobTwin »

Gradually catching up... 8-[

A few pages back, on page 22, I sneaked in a few pics from June when we picked the car up from RPM in Farnborough so I need to back track again and fill in what was done leading up to that day!
Less than 2 years after putting the new engine in, the last thing we had hoped or planned for was to be sorting out any problems but the ongoing question of whether we had the right converter or whether there were other trans problems needed looking at plus the new worry of whether we’d adjusted the rockers correctly after one of the pushrods had come adrift last September.
So Martin @RPM agreed to take a look for us. By the time he had the time and space, it coincided nicely in a way with ‘lockdown’ as Martin’s usual workload had eased a bit, having less people badgering him with deadlines so he was able to spend a bit more time looking at what we needed doing than he would have in a normal year.
Priority on our ‘to do’ list was the trans and rocker gear and also a rear main leak that was always going to be what determined how long the car was there. The list also included:
fit FlowKooler water pump,
fix fuel pump leak,
adjust/fix shifter mechanism as first gear was difficult to get,
fit new improved headlamps.
As usual this all snow-balled into more work than intended cos the more Martin looked, the more he found corners had been cut on the original Koffel build, some of which led to oil leaks from everywhere you normally get leaks plus places you don’t!


(some descriptions under the photos ;) )

Engine out, pre-strip down. More oil leaks than first realised! And no, I don't know whose cuda that is!
Engine out, pre-strip down. More oil leaks than first realised! And no, I don't know whose cuda that is!
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To fix all this and achieve a paint finish that we and Martin would be happy with, we agreed for him to strip what was already on there and start again.
Back when Koffel were building the engine they fitted a chrome timing cover, despite knowing we wanted a stock-looking engine. So we asked them to change it for a plain steel one which would be painted over here anyway. Once Martin had stripped all the paint he found that the timing cover they fitted looked at best second-hand, and was leaking oil. Luckily Martin had a spare.

Partly stripped, timing cover horrors becoming apparent
Partly stripped, timing cover horrors becoming apparent
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Inlet blasted
Inlet blasted
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Out with the crappy old, in with the nice old
Out with the crappy old, in with the nice old
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Other places that needed re-sealing were the inlet manifold, sump, and of course the valve covers we’d had on and off a few times.
Other issues included the fuel pump not sitting flush on its mounting surface, so some of the casting needed grinding away.
Flex plate holes had been enlarged/elongated badly so needed to be replaced. New replacement supplied by Geof Hauser.
Butchered old flex plate
Butchered old flex plate
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'NOS' replacement from HRC
'NOS' replacement from HRC
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I hadn’t noticed when Koffel sent photos of the build but Martin pointed out that they had used standard main cap bolts; not upgraded to ARP.
No oil slinger had been fitted.
And contributing to, if not causing our rear main leak, Martin found that the knurling on the journal where the seal sits was more pronounced on one side than the other, plus overall it was a lot more pronounced than usual. Koffel hadn’t fitted the side seals properly so had used a lot of sealer to compensate, but still hadn’t managed to make it seal.
Another disappointing discovery was some scoring on the rear main bearings, not terminal but a sign that something has passed thru the system. The oil pick up screen had a fair amount of gasket material in it.

Enough doom and gloom, back to the stripping :shock:
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Rear main seal knurling
Rear main seal knurling
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Ancillaries & bolt-ons....
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FlowKooler pump fitted, etch primed
FlowKooler pump fitted, etch primed
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RobTwin
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Re: Rob & Stu's 69 Sport Satellite

Post by RobTwin »

Luckily the weather was kind back in April, plus it helped having an empty car park so no complaints about over-spray!
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Ready to go back in!
Ready to go back in!
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RobTwin
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Re: Rob & Stu's 69 Sport Satellite

Post by RobTwin »

Then on May 13th... :thumbright:

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On the home stretch :D Almost :?


So the big question was has the rear main leak been fixed? After running the car up on axle stands for 20 mins, going thru the gears, no leaks were detected. But after road-testing for a few miles, the pesky rear seal started leaking #-o

Martin also noticed that the sump wasn't sealing very well and blamed that on the fact that the lip around the mounting holes on the aftermarket piece were too close to the perimeter lip so there want enough room for a washer to sit flat, so he made up some reinforcing plates to spread the load:
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Which cured the sump leak :thumbright:
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RobTwin
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Re: Rob & Stu's 69 Sport Satellite

Post by RobTwin »

Whilst Martin was keen to have another look at the rear main leak, around this time he was moving his workshop so we’d have to wait a while till he could fit us in again so with Martin’s blessing, we asked Geof Hauser if he fancied having ago… Luckily Geof was up for a challenge and as we now had a replacement torque converter to fit, he could access the seal easier while the trans was removed.
So 2 weeks ago we took the car the HRC and left it with them for a week and picked it up last Weds.

Good news! Geof and Scott worked their magic and so far, we have a dry engine, oh and a new converter! I dont want this to sound like Martin couldn’t fix it but Geof could, it’s just that the timing of it didn’t allow Martin to have another look before Geof could.
I haven’t driven the car yet as Stu drove it back from Geof’s but before we took it away, Geof said the 2500 stall converter drove fine, like a normal car. He’s heard a few horror stories about Koffel in recent years, but he said ours felt strong on the brief road test.

We still intend to get it to the rolling road at some point but need to get some miles on it first, and make sure that seal holds!

I’m sure Stu could chip in here with his seat-of-the-pants review... :-k
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Captain Chaos
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Re: Rob & Stu's 69 Sport Satellite

Post by Captain Chaos »

Good news in the end but a long road there👍

I’m guilty of lurking and not commenting on this thread,sorry about that. Loving the stock appearance route you’ve gone and I’m interested to see the rolling road results.
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Dom66
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Re: Rob & Stu's 69 Sport Satellite

Post by Dom66 »

Quite a journey, here's to many trouble free miles ahead :salute:
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Derek
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Re: Rob & Stu's 69 Sport Satellite

Post by Derek »

Jeeeezus. I thought this had all been plain sailing for you two until I read it from the start. It’s got to hurt when you speed all that money and it’s not right😡. Hopefully that’s the end of your bad luck. Onwards and upwards guys. 🤪
Are we there yet dad ..... 10 to the gallon but worth it.

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RobTwin
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Re: Rob & Stu's 69 Sport Satellite

Post by RobTwin »

Captain Chaos wrote: Sun Aug 30, 20 9:34 am Good news in the end but a long road there👍

I’m guilty of lurking and not commenting on this thread,sorry about that. Loving the stock appearance route you’ve gone and I’m interested to see the rolling road results.
No worries Stew, at least someone's looking in! I dare say we'd get more replies and :thumbright: 's if we'd done all the work ourselves, and rightly so, but we've tried that and it didn't work out that well, so we fancied getting the professionals in this time! :D
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Captain Chaos
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Re: Rob & Stu's 69 Sport Satellite

Post by Captain Chaos »

I personally don’t subscribe to the “built not bought” way of looking at things. For me it’s always been about enjoying a car for what it is. All power to you both for sticking with it👍
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Birdman
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Re: Rob & Stu's 69 Sport Satellite

Post by Birdman »

Well done twins for not giving up, but, must be very disappointing for the service you received at Koffel's. Anyway onwards and upwards, now to enjoy that motor. Chris
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morgan
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Re: Rob & Stu's 69 Sport Satellite

Post by morgan »

Blimey. I had no idea. I mean I saw the engine when it first went in and I knew there was some shakedown but wow.
Thats super disappointing when you've ponied up to have it built properly by someone reputable. I never would have predicted this. Surely they are on the hook for some liability ?

As for the rear seal - yes, as you know I got caught out by that. Maddening. (As an aside, the mancini billeted seal sorted mine out, and I know a chap in Berkhamsted who can do it in car).

Sincerely hope this is it now and you can enjoy the deserved joys that motor can/should bring. I still want a ride in it :)
"Cum homine de cane debeo congredi." Woof.

Current Charger status - "Working !"
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