Slow cranking and no start after coolant leak!

sprintgtvgus · Post by **sprintgtvgus** » Tue May 12, 15 9:52 pm

Oh bother.

So, I've only just registered my car in the UK and driven it all of 5 miles so far.

I realised I have a coolant leak that was getting worse, thankfully it seems to be a core plug behind the drivers side engine mount. I can see yellow grunge and its leaking from that area, took the loan of a bore scope to see it behind that engine mount

But;

More bad news.

I ran the car for just 2-3 minutes and it cut out.

I was going to drive it on a ramp to double check the leak and look for any other issues.

I topped up the rad with 1 ltr of antifreeze before starting, as there is a leak from the core plug as described.

So it ran and I pulled up to a barrier, had to get out, and it stopped.

Then would not start, loads of fuel as you can see the vapour.

Most worryingly of all the engine started to get hard to turn over.

Originally I thought that this was just the battery but I got someone to use jump leads, and it was just as difficult.

The battery earth lead was getting very hot and the starter motor itself was moderately warm, but not red hot.

So I'm now worried the engine has got to hot and is tight, or by coincidence the starter has a problem. In vain I threw on a a new starter relay that I had, made no difference.

Is it possible that as it was not up to temp (only ran it for 2-3 minutes) that there was not much coolant in the block? And now the engine got hot and is tight!?

I did rev it a couple of times as you do, but otherwise it ran for literally 2-3 minutes.

The only other thing I have changed recently is to install pertronix ingiter 2.

After I fitted this the timing seemed a bit off so I adjusted the dizzy a little.

When I was trying to start after it cut out I tried turning the dizzy initially as I though maybe timing was out. I do have a timing light, but haven't used it and wasn't sure what sort of timing figures to aim for.

I think it's now flooded too.

Not off to the best start with this car, I've had 2-3 other classics and had better luck.

I'm going to go ahead and replace the core plug. Will also do some more tests on the starting/ charging system.

i have ordered a mini high torque starter anyway, as I'm sure that will spin faster and draw less.

i had 9v going to the coil on cranking, and 12.5 v at the ignition key on at coil.

the battery has had a rough time for sure, will try to drop test that when I get a chance.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Tue May 12, 15 9:57 pm

Is it worth pulling the plugs and cranking it in case you have had a head gasket go and leak coolant into a cylinder?

Mossy68 · Post by **Mossy68** » Tue May 12, 15 10:02 pm

Ignition too far advanced ?
Doesn't sound like a heat seize to me.

sprintgtvgus · Post by **sprintgtvgus** » Tue May 12, 15 10:03 pm

Good point, could start to lock.... But there is no water in the oil, would I not start to see some hellmans?

I did look into one cylinder through the plug hole using a bore scope, but I suppose it could be just one or two cylinders...?

sprintgtvgus · Post by **sprintgtvgus** » Tue May 12, 15 10:06 pm

Mossy68 wrote:Ignition too far advanced ?
Doesn't sound like a heat seize to me.

That's possible, but it was running fine for 2-3 mins. Is there any easy way to set base timing? I had been tampering, but small turns...

Can I flood the intake with fuel or something stupid like that??

John · Post by **John** » Tue May 12, 15 10:12 pm

Don`t go panicking unduly as these motors are tougher than given credit for.

Clean up your earth straps real good first and give the battery a bloody good charge and give it another go. Prbably a good idea to give all the plugs a clean up while your at it

You may notice that once the engine is hot the starter may slow down and this is usually down to heat absorbtion in to the starter solenoid of a standard starter and if yje case your mini starter should cure that

MilesnMiles · Post by **MilesnMiles** » Tue May 12, 15 11:06 pm

Hopefully it's coincidence. It won't overheat from cold in three minutes. You've changed the timing so you could be way off. Like John says! get all the battery leads and earths correct first. Makes a big difference as I had similar problems with hot terminals.
Check that you have spark too.

sprintgtvgus · Post by **sprintgtvgus** » Wed May 13, 15 9:29 pm

Thanks guys, need some encouragement

I took the afternoon off work today so that I could crack on.

Never sure where the time goes!

I did find that the starter itself was loose, some eejit had used a bolt that left only two threads going into the block so the starter was only held in by one bolt and was flopping about.

In fairness I had been hearing a bit of a rattle/clunk on startup so that explains it.

I wonder if it's damaged the starter bendix oe something....

I also tried cleaning the block earth strap, and using a jumper earth strap with large crocodile clips.

One thing I notice is that there does not seem to be much of a chassis earth... Where is the normal chassis earthing point? Does it need to go to the block?

I jumpered this and unfortunately it did not seem to make a diffrence.

I then removed the plugs, a couple were wet with fuel, and span her over without plugs to try and clear any excess fuel.

Fitting the passenger side plugs was more fiddly than expected! I have tubular headers.

I very nearly got her to start, and I have spark, but she's just not turning over fast enough.

So I have decided to remove the headers the drivers side and plough on with fitting a mini starter and at the same time fitting a new core plug to stop the leak.

Crossing my fingers!!

Desperately want to be out there cruising along, and my Le Mans trip is getting ever closer....!

Mossy68 · Post by **Mossy68** » Wed May 13, 15 9:55 pm

A loose starter could certainly be the problem. I had the one bolt scenario on my Coronet

As time goes on you will discover these old mopes love a good earth !!!!
Negative battery terminal to body, body to block etc. some even add extra earths for some components , as they use the mounting screw / bolt as an earth. Fill ya boots !!!!

MilesnMiles · Post by **MilesnMiles** » Wed May 13, 15 10:30 pm

Like Mossy said, earth everything.
From battery earth to body, from same to block next to exhaust manifold.
On passenger side of block run an earths strap from bell housing bolt to bulkhead.
Earth the ECU with a strap,to bulkhead.

Mossy68 · Post by **Mossy68** » Wed May 13, 15 10:35 pm

MilesnMiles wrote:Like Mossy said, earth everything.
From battery earth to body, from same to block next to exhaust manifold.
On passenger side of block run an earths strap from bell housing bolt to bulkhead.
Earth the ECU with a strap,to bulkhead.

Cheers Miles. You beat me.
Don't know where the stock straps are on a 66 Belv , but as Miles said. Earth the lot.
Obviously making sure you go back to bare metal on connections , and perhaps use a ' wrinkled ' rather than a flat washer. ( must be a correct name for them washers ? )

Charger · Post by **Charger** » Thu May 14, 15 8:04 am

MilesnMiles wrote:Like Mossy said, earth everything.
From battery earth to body, from same to block next to exhaust manifold.
On passenger side of block run an earths strap from bell housing bolt to bulkhead.
Earth the ECU with a strap,to bulkhead.

as above for me too

I added another from alternator bolt to body, back of rad support

as well as voltage regulator, earth to voltage reg too

goes without saying to make sure all the +ve cables are good and secure to, battery to starter, battery to starter solenoid, starter solenoid to starter

mini starter will make a huge difference to cranking speed for sure, I’ve got one

MilesnMiles · Post by **MilesnMiles** » Thu May 14, 15 9:41 am

Tidy work

Dave999 · Post by **Dave999** » Thu May 14, 15 10:35 am

the last thing you want is the starter current flow finding its way back to the battery through the coolant and radiator (slowly desolders all the tubes due to electroysis) or the throttle cable (melts and snaps) or via the fuel pipe outer

engine/trans is on rubber supports only metal to metal contact with the body is the earth strap from the metal engine mount to the bolt where the battery negative bolts to body. and thats the way the starter and igntion see battery negative....

Dave

sprintgtvgus · Post by **sprintgtvgus** » Sat May 16, 15 9:36 pm

Well, I've been cracking on with this, as usual the jobs seems to get bigger and bigger

So far I have removed the exhaust manifold (sorry "header"

I have also jacked the engine up, removed the engine mount and also removed the steering box.

I removed the core plug, it didn't look pretty...

I have spent the day flushing the rad out, and removing the TS housing and trying to flush out the block through the core plug hole.

I've got rid of a lot of crap from the system.

I've tried to fit a core plug today, but it's a crap angle and there is hardly any room to swing a hammer.

I have had several failed attempts with it not going in straight, so I have put them in the freezer hoping that that will help!!

The TS housing is past it and the coolant hoses were rusting inside (felixble ones) so I've ordered a load of stuff.

Glad I've been through the system and will fit new housing, thermostat, hoses etc etc.

What sort of thermostat do you guys recommend for the UK? It has a 195 in it, but I have a new 180 degree one which should be fine?