A833 rebuild
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A833 rebuild
My transmision is in need of a full rebuild. My mate is perfectly capable but I was thinking of a 5 speed manual. I only have a few years driving left in me, (just getting too old). Would like my son to keep her going. I know there are issues with the Passon 5 speed. Any others out there?. All advice and direction welcome. Many thanks, Gerry.
Re: A833 rebuild
Have you considered swapping out for a 904 or 727 - if you install a manual Valve body it is in essence a CLutchless Manual?
I have the 'Cuda set up like that, and with a higher stall convertor it is a lot of fun!
Easier on the knees too!!
Just a thought...
I have the 'Cuda set up like that, and with a higher stall convertor it is a lot of fun!
Easier on the knees too!!
Just a thought...
Pete Wiseman; Cambridge.
Mopar by the grace of God
Mopar by the grace of God
Re: A833 rebuild
Thanks Pete, would that not involve cutting the tranny tunnel? Not something I would like to do. Agree with the knees though. Drove her back from Omagh on sat afternoon, all fine until I hit the traffic of the motorway in Belfast A very tense 1/4 mile. 
.
.Re: A833 rebuild
Bolt in, if you select the correct Trans even the Prop will bolt up!
Pete Wiseman; Cambridge.
Mopar by the grace of God
Mopar by the grace of God
Re: A833 rebuild
Hi Pete, please explain. 727 is. A big unit. Swapped a few in my day. 904 is not one I have any experience with.
Re: A833 rebuild
A 727 (TF8) is a bigger unit, and comes with either a cast-in Small Block or Big Block Bell Housing configuration. I believe it is longer too.
A 904 (TF6) is the smaller of the two and only comes in Small Block Bell Housing configuration.
Blue will be able to tell you on the interchange options.
They have the same Valve Body arrangements.
Earlier units do not have torque Convertor interchangeability as the input shafts are different.
My Racing transmission has a bolt on Bell housing - similar to a manual Transmission set up - this is for greater strength, and is achieved by physically cutting off the cast-in portion of the transmission case!
A 904 (TF6) is the smaller of the two and only comes in Small Block Bell Housing configuration.
Blue will be able to tell you on the interchange options.
They have the same Valve Body arrangements.
Earlier units do not have torque Convertor interchangeability as the input shafts are different.
My Racing transmission has a bolt on Bell housing - similar to a manual Transmission set up - this is for greater strength, and is achieved by physically cutting off the cast-in portion of the transmission case!
Pete Wiseman; Cambridge.
Mopar by the grace of God
Mopar by the grace of God
Re: A833 rebuild
Bad picture of the "Ultrabell" bolt on Bell Housing in the Valiant...
- Attachments
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- Ultrabell.jpeg (102.16 KiB) Viewed 2242 times
Pete Wiseman; Cambridge.
Mopar by the grace of God
Mopar by the grace of God
Re: A833 rebuild
If its a B or E-body
TKX kit from SST.
if its an A this can be done but potentially needs the tunnel slit and widened up front
tremec TKX good for upto 600 ftlb or torque.
they take a standard tkx
they remove the standard rear mount shifter, mill the rear shifter housing down flat with the output tunnel and cover it with a thin plate
they move the shifter forward to the front mots position and replace the forks/levers in the front opening so a shifter can be fitted.
ties you into their custom shifter
and it will have a bit of a swan neck back on an A body
puts the shifter in front of the torsion bar cross member
they also take the tail housing rear mount and machine off the sides to make it narrower. as standard they are very wide with 4 stud holes two each side. the chop off the ends....
you end up with a tkx that fits under the car properly without cutting the chassis member.
the tunnel needs a hole for the stick and they provide a pop rivet-it-on with mastic, type mini hump to give a flat plane to bolt a shift boot to.
they provide a rear mount bolt on cross member etc and suggest you use a specific bell and their hydraulic clutch slave. which is a ford part that has had its body machined down and a new hole drilled to pin it by a stud in the IBR mounting.
there is also a ford clutch master with a 45 degree / mount that works on a mopar provided you fit a strengthening plate inside the car against the clutch firewall hole. this can be bolted or riveted in
a 1st year chevy s10 master cylinder would also work has similar offset mounting
sst kit has a 90* mounting and a machined adapter to make it 45*
if its an A body with slant or standard 318 100-350 FT/lb
a T5 would do it but this would be a custom job and more involved than above. the tail housing needs to be swapped etc...
can go into detail i'm 90% through this project just can't get off my lazy ass to Bananarama!.
a w58 toyota box (aisin warner from a supra) or an R154 from a supra turbo using a dodge dakota 318 pattern bellhousing, as used with the AX15 box (also aisin warner, but this is a truck box a bit like the car focused R154)
The Dodge Application: Found in early 1989-1999 Dodge Dakota pickups (typically paired with the 3.9L V6 engine).
hard to do in the UK, easier for the US and Australians due to prevalence of toyotas with the right gearbox and trucks with the right bellhousing
easiest. a standard 4 speed but with overdrive...
buy a A833 overdrive trans from a mid 70s duster and get your mate to build it into your current case
gives wide ratio 1,2,3 and an overdrive 4th at the stick..... but is actually 124 with an overdrive 3rd...they just hide the way they have done it from you.
best with 2.77:1 2.92:1 or 3,23:1 rear end
none of this is easy or cheap
TKX Kit from SST or 4 speed overdrive A833....probably the least hassle.
But Hassle none the less
4 speed auto?
4-speed TorqueFlite—most notably the A518 (46RH/46RE) and A500 (42RH/42RE) the 4th is an overdrive gear 0.69:1
both involve some chopping of the torsion bar crossmember both need a new bolt in section and mount and both need some control vacuum or electronic, to control lockup and overdrive
Dave
TKX kit from SST.
if its an A this can be done but potentially needs the tunnel slit and widened up front
tremec TKX good for upto 600 ftlb or torque.
they take a standard tkx
they remove the standard rear mount shifter, mill the rear shifter housing down flat with the output tunnel and cover it with a thin plate
they move the shifter forward to the front mots position and replace the forks/levers in the front opening so a shifter can be fitted.
ties you into their custom shifter
and it will have a bit of a swan neck back on an A body
puts the shifter in front of the torsion bar cross member
they also take the tail housing rear mount and machine off the sides to make it narrower. as standard they are very wide with 4 stud holes two each side. the chop off the ends....
you end up with a tkx that fits under the car properly without cutting the chassis member.
the tunnel needs a hole for the stick and they provide a pop rivet-it-on with mastic, type mini hump to give a flat plane to bolt a shift boot to.
they provide a rear mount bolt on cross member etc and suggest you use a specific bell and their hydraulic clutch slave. which is a ford part that has had its body machined down and a new hole drilled to pin it by a stud in the IBR mounting.
there is also a ford clutch master with a 45 degree / mount that works on a mopar provided you fit a strengthening plate inside the car against the clutch firewall hole. this can be bolted or riveted in
a 1st year chevy s10 master cylinder would also work has similar offset mounting
sst kit has a 90* mounting and a machined adapter to make it 45*
if its an A body with slant or standard 318 100-350 FT/lb
a T5 would do it but this would be a custom job and more involved than above. the tail housing needs to be swapped etc...
can go into detail i'm 90% through this project just can't get off my lazy ass to Bananarama!.
a w58 toyota box (aisin warner from a supra) or an R154 from a supra turbo using a dodge dakota 318 pattern bellhousing, as used with the AX15 box (also aisin warner, but this is a truck box a bit like the car focused R154)
The Dodge Application: Found in early 1989-1999 Dodge Dakota pickups (typically paired with the 3.9L V6 engine).
hard to do in the UK, easier for the US and Australians due to prevalence of toyotas with the right gearbox and trucks with the right bellhousing
easiest. a standard 4 speed but with overdrive...
buy a A833 overdrive trans from a mid 70s duster and get your mate to build it into your current case
gives wide ratio 1,2,3 and an overdrive 4th at the stick..... but is actually 124 with an overdrive 3rd...they just hide the way they have done it from you.
best with 2.77:1 2.92:1 or 3,23:1 rear end
none of this is easy or cheap
TKX Kit from SST or 4 speed overdrive A833....probably the least hassle.
But Hassle none the less
4 speed auto?
4-speed TorqueFlite—most notably the A518 (46RH/46RE) and A500 (42RH/42RE) the 4th is an overdrive gear 0.69:1
both involve some chopping of the torsion bar crossmember both need a new bolt in section and mount and both need some control vacuum or electronic, to control lockup and overdrive
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Re: A833 rebuild
Bless you Dave, but as normal, your tech knowledge is way over my head. Think I may have a pressure plate issue; when in neutral with the rear wheels of the ground it is still doing around 20mph as I found when I put her in the garage. Wil try and attach a video. Either way, Wil be a stock clutch from now on. ( if I can get one). The dual friction is too heavy for me. I know rock auto are playing difficult With metal parts although summit still ship. I will stick with the manual though. Nah, can't attach video.
Re: A833 rebuild
No probs
there are options there if you want to spend a bit of $$$
based on what you say doesn't sound like a pressure plate issue
In neutral
the input shaft and clutch spin with the motor, clutch is doing its job, you are just not in any gear, every gear in the gearbox is spinning, just nothing locked to the output to drive.
the input shaft drives the cluster which spins all of the 1,2,3,4 gears on the main/output shaft
BUT
none of them is locked in gear so they all just roll around the main shaft driven by cluster and input, and not DRIVE it
However the 833 is 1960s tech. those gears just have a bush in the middle so the friction between them and the output shaft when the oil is thick can turn it when there is no resistance at the wheels. which means you may well see the wheels turning slowly... or at least one of them on an open diff car...
i.e what you are observing is possible when there is nothing wrong with any of it..... do not be alarmed by what you observe, how cold was the transmission how thick was the oil?
OR
the input shaft roller bearings are toast and the input is chewing the nose of the main shaft.... similar evidence would be observed
with the trans out you would note chronic lateral play in the input shaft, i.e you could waggle it so it ground on the inside of the input bearing tube..never a good thing.
id get the clutch adjustment checked
dump tha trans oil and replace with new 80W90 GL4 or if you live in alaska ATF or if you want to gain an extra 10th of a second in the 1/4 mile SAE30 engine oil...
see how it shifts
but as i say if you want overdrive and don't mind just 4 gears the a833 out of a mid 70s duster would fit an A body wide spread 1,2,3 and a OD 4th
basically like a truck 3 speed with an overdrive
you would need to swap the bearing retainer from your old transmission onto it which would be a job for your mate as you need to shim it right basically check the front bearing retainer ring thickness and the size of the bearing you don't want to crack the flange of the input bearing retainer.
ideally if its an aluminium case one you would bush the countershaft bore. but you don''t need to if you don't race and don't constantly do burnouts
you need an IBR that is 4.80 inches not 5,?? inches. the duster transmission uses this 5 inch plus size, your bellhousing hole is only 4.8... hence the swap.
Or you get the big one from the duster turned down to size, simple enough bit of lathe work and you avoid worries about front bearing.
the 4 bolt holes in the same place just the diameter differs
overdrive gears etc
https://www.brewersperformance.com/prod ... t-1977-up/
if you rebuilt yours as an AS NEW overdrive you'd need this gearset and a set of overdrive trans shift levers i think your standard link rods would bolt up
they fudge it so that when your stick is in 4th the trans is in 3rd which is the overdrive pair of gears
and when your stick is in 3rd the trans is in what used to be 4th which is your 1:1 direct drive i.e just like what you have as 4th today
basically if your current transmission has 1,2,3,4
you would end up with Low, middle, Drive, Overdrive i.e low 1st, a kinda 2/3 gear, a 4th gear and what would normally be called 5th
easy at the lights quite a short first bit of step to middle bit of a step to drive then on motorway overdrive meaning quiet 60-70 mph cruise
Its a gear set designed for slant 6 and trucks during the oil crisis, which american mopar cars n coffee/ long way to the car show, people seem to like, now that it costs more the 5 cents a gallon.
a gear set for the "Bananarama! and sit in a deck chair while people point out stuff that isn't factory correct" crowd
this way you get the best of both worlds your orginal robust steel case the better side cover and shift detent that it has, on overdrive gear for cruising about and no problems with front bearings or bearing retainer
Dave
there are options there if you want to spend a bit of $$$
based on what you say doesn't sound like a pressure plate issue
In neutral
the input shaft and clutch spin with the motor, clutch is doing its job, you are just not in any gear, every gear in the gearbox is spinning, just nothing locked to the output to drive.
the input shaft drives the cluster which spins all of the 1,2,3,4 gears on the main/output shaft
BUT
none of them is locked in gear so they all just roll around the main shaft driven by cluster and input, and not DRIVE it
However the 833 is 1960s tech. those gears just have a bush in the middle so the friction between them and the output shaft when the oil is thick can turn it when there is no resistance at the wheels. which means you may well see the wheels turning slowly... or at least one of them on an open diff car...
i.e what you are observing is possible when there is nothing wrong with any of it..... do not be alarmed by what you observe, how cold was the transmission how thick was the oil?
OR
the input shaft roller bearings are toast and the input is chewing the nose of the main shaft.... similar evidence would be observed
with the trans out you would note chronic lateral play in the input shaft, i.e you could waggle it so it ground on the inside of the input bearing tube..never a good thing.
id get the clutch adjustment checked
dump tha trans oil and replace with new 80W90 GL4 or if you live in alaska ATF or if you want to gain an extra 10th of a second in the 1/4 mile SAE30 engine oil...
see how it shifts
but as i say if you want overdrive and don't mind just 4 gears the a833 out of a mid 70s duster would fit an A body wide spread 1,2,3 and a OD 4th
basically like a truck 3 speed with an overdrive
you would need to swap the bearing retainer from your old transmission onto it which would be a job for your mate as you need to shim it right basically check the front bearing retainer ring thickness and the size of the bearing you don't want to crack the flange of the input bearing retainer.
ideally if its an aluminium case one you would bush the countershaft bore. but you don''t need to if you don't race and don't constantly do burnouts
you need an IBR that is 4.80 inches not 5,?? inches. the duster transmission uses this 5 inch plus size, your bellhousing hole is only 4.8... hence the swap.
Or you get the big one from the duster turned down to size, simple enough bit of lathe work and you avoid worries about front bearing.
the 4 bolt holes in the same place just the diameter differs
overdrive gears etc
https://www.brewersperformance.com/prod ... t-1977-up/
if you rebuilt yours as an AS NEW overdrive you'd need this gearset and a set of overdrive trans shift levers i think your standard link rods would bolt up
they fudge it so that when your stick is in 4th the trans is in 3rd which is the overdrive pair of gears
and when your stick is in 3rd the trans is in what used to be 4th which is your 1:1 direct drive i.e just like what you have as 4th today
basically if your current transmission has 1,2,3,4
you would end up with Low, middle, Drive, Overdrive i.e low 1st, a kinda 2/3 gear, a 4th gear and what would normally be called 5th
easy at the lights quite a short first bit of step to middle bit of a step to drive then on motorway overdrive meaning quiet 60-70 mph cruise
Its a gear set designed for slant 6 and trucks during the oil crisis, which american mopar cars n coffee/ long way to the car show, people seem to like, now that it costs more the 5 cents a gallon.
a gear set for the "Bananarama! and sit in a deck chair while people point out stuff that isn't factory correct" crowd
this way you get the best of both worlds your orginal robust steel case the better side cover and shift detent that it has, on overdrive gear for cruising about and no problems with front bearings or bearing retainer
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Re: A833 rebuild
i have no idea why the site is bannanaramaring standard none offensive english
dave
yes i do you can't say p o l i s h
I t
too rude if the words run into each other
dave
yes i do you can't say p o l i s h
I t
too rude if the words run into each other
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
-
Johnny Dart
- Posts: 913
- Joined: Tue Dec 24, 13 12:46 pm
- Location: East Sussex
Re: A833 rebuild
That looks normal, the oil inside the box has friction to turn the prop.
What happens if you run it like that in neutral , and you put your foot on the brakes ?
It should just stop the wheels turning, if it stalls you have a problem.
What happens if you run it like that in neutral , and you put your foot on the brakes ?
It should just stop the wheels turning, if it stalls you have a problem.
Re: A833 rebuild
Jonny, that is in neutral. It's s the Chevy poltergeist!
Re: A833 rebuild
wonder if a slider/synchro is being held in a position that makes it "clutch" its gear
badly adjusted neutral position most likely, something has moved linkage wise over years of use
or something like the shift levers inside the box bent are very very worn.
ok if it has a hurst style shifter base
when in neutral there is a hole in the shifter base through which you stick a bolt to allow Neutral position of stick to be set. That pins the levers out of the bottom of the shifter into neutral position
so jack it
take off the rods that run from the shifter to the side of the box
use a 1/4 inch drill bit or bolt through the hole in the side of the shifter base to pin it into neutral, you may need to move the levers at the bottom a bit
use hand or pliers to check the the levers on the side of the box are genuinely in their centred neutral detent position
connect the shift rods up and adjust their length so that neither the levers on the box or on the shifter move as you do em up tight.
take out drill bit and test to see if wheels are still driven to the same extent, in neutral again
Dave
badly adjusted neutral position most likely, something has moved linkage wise over years of use
or something like the shift levers inside the box bent are very very worn.
ok if it has a hurst style shifter base
when in neutral there is a hole in the shifter base through which you stick a bolt to allow Neutral position of stick to be set. That pins the levers out of the bottom of the shifter into neutral position
so jack it
take off the rods that run from the shifter to the side of the box
use a 1/4 inch drill bit or bolt through the hole in the side of the shifter base to pin it into neutral, you may need to move the levers at the bottom a bit
use hand or pliers to check the the levers on the side of the box are genuinely in their centred neutral detent position
connect the shift rods up and adjust their length so that neither the levers on the box or on the shifter move as you do em up tight.
take out drill bit and test to see if wheels are still driven to the same extent, in neutral again
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying