db's 66 Belvedere ***FOR SALE***

db · Post by db » Mon Sep 19, 11 10:12 pm

Little bit of progress...
Had a little play with the motorplate i have. It's too narrow to reach the chassis legs but it was handy as a '1st draft'.
I now know the alternator needs to swing up by 4" or so, so i'll need a longer belt. Other than that it's pretty straightforward, nowt else in the way

Next, the steering rack needed some attention- Even with the track rods adjusted fully in, the wheels toe'd out a couple of degrees. I also need to straighten the angle of the track rods, this will effectively lengthen them further.
By trimming a smidge off the threaded ends & the tube adjuster, combined with a shallower jam nut i've gained enough to allow the rack to come back 4" so it's dead in line and gained space to adjust to about 1 degree toe in if needed. (I also gave it a good clean and a lick o' paint

)
I'm gonna make a second tubular x-member to sit parallel to the other and mount the rack on this, with a couple of diagonal braces to beef it all up.
Did a bit of prelim measuring and it looks like the deep sump will be really close to the rack in it's new spot

I'll do more measuring tomorow and have a look at some engine bay pics of smallblock B-bods to try to pinpoint how low and how far forward my engine will sit.

db · Post by db » Wed Sep 21, 11 11:26 pm

Bent me tube and it came out perfect

I decided to rake it back about 45* from the existing tube, this will make the finished structure stronger.
However, i've measured the motor more carefully and i have an 'issue'- From the rear of the gearbox flange to the front on the deep bit of the sump is 21.5"
From the bulkhead to the repositioned steering rack is... you guessed it... 21.5"

I'll have to pull the rack forward again by maybe an inch, i can 'adjust' the front of the sump half an inch and er, generally cross my fingers

Maybe i should leave this task alone until i have the 4-speed and i can actuall put the whole lot in the car to try.

mopar_mark · Post by **mopar_mark** » Thu Sep 22, 11 12:42 am

I am not fully sure I understand what you are trying to do, not criticising, trying to help

Are you intending to keep the motor in its original position, as in Fore n Aft location ?

I see you intend to run motor plate, are you also running a mid plate ?

Are you also intending to keep the new steering rack in the same location ?

Is there a reason you don't want to push the motor back further, in order to gain more clearance between the rack & sump ?

I see from your thread you are already needing to adjust the prop shaft, so no additional work from that perspective.

You are also switching from Auto to Manual, so you will have to add gearbox hump or hole for shifter linkage/shifter, so that will need to be added, irrelevant of where the engine/box is

In your mock photos(new rack position 002) with the rack on aerosol cans, hard to tell from photos & what you are trying to do, was this purely to do with fore & aft location, not height ?

Might just be the photo angle ? the rack steering arms want to be close to parallel to the suspension 'A' arms

I also noticed you are considering solid mounting the Gearbox - I highly recommend/advise you not to solid mount the gearbox.

db · Post by db » Thu Sep 22, 11 12:50 pm

[quote="mopar_mark"]I am not fully sure I understand what you are trying to do, not criticising, trying to help
I appreciate any help mate and please feel free to criticise if summat looks wrong, i'm learning as i go.

Are you intending to keep the motor in its original position, as in Fore n Aft location ?
The car was modified to take a Hemi/Lenco and the X-member, mounting points, inner fenders, in fact all evidence of the factory engine position was removed so i'm starting from scratch

I see you intend to run motor plate, are you also running a mid plate ?
Depends- would you say it's essential, recommended, not a bad idea or pointless?

Are you also intending to keep the new steering rack in the same location ?
I want to get the rack in the best position i can. Originally it was too far forward, meaning the rack inner ball joints were angled back about 20 degrees

Is there a reason you don't want to push the motor back further, in order to gain more clearance between the rack & sump ?
Yes- according to my measurements, with the bellhousing touching the bulkhead and the rack lined up correctly (fore/aft as in New Rack Position Pic 3), the sump would still foul the rack. The only things i can alter really are the rack position and the sump

I see from your thread you are already needing to adjust the prop shaft, so no additional work from that perspective.
Yup, the prop i think was from Pete's Sox car

You are also switching from Auto to Manual, so you will have to add gearbox hump or hole for shifter linkage/shifter, so that will need to be added, irrelevant of where the engine/box is
The car was originally manual so the hump and shifter hole are correct

In your mock photos(new rack position 002) with the rack on aerosol cans, hard to tell from photos & what you are trying to do, was this purely to do with fore & aft location, not height ?
Yes, I was just trying to get fore and aft right, the cans were just for approximate height

Might just be the photo angle ? the rack steering arms want to be close to parallel to the suspension 'A' arms
You're right, i've just had good look at this after reading your message. I've now moved the track rod ends to UNDER the plates that link to the hubs and raised the rack about 1/2". They're pretty much parallel to the A arms now

I also noticed you are considering solid mounting the Gearbox - I highly recommend/advise you not to solid mount the gearbox.
Agreed- Pete has already warned me off this, i'll look into it properly once i have the 4-speed here. Would you recommend a stock mount or Poly?

Thanks for some great pointers Mark- i was a bit lost last night but now i feel i can get going again.

Check out the new pics and tell me what you think...

I'm on plan C now- gonna cut the original rack mount off and move that back 3" to re-mount the rack in it's new position.
I'll then fit the extra tube i've made in front of it, still at the jaunty 45* off vertical. Then Bananarama! off with some nice diagonal braces between the two. Who needs AlterKation

autofetish · Post by **autofetish** » Thu Sep 22, 11 1:41 pm

Looking Great

autofetish · Post by **autofetish** » Thu Sep 22, 11 1:49 pm

db · Post by db » Thu Sep 22, 11 2:35 pm

Impressive work!
I'll have a good think about what you're saying and study your pics.

Here's my sump...

autofetish · Post by **autofetish** » Thu Sep 22, 11 3:30 pm

Nice sump it was really a question of money do it on the cheap and get down pod.

Also you most probably know but if not make sure you get this tool for cutting you pipes. It will eat blades but so much easier

I did all my cuts with this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tube-Notcher- ... 3cbc5d4fa4

Q. why would you (or anyone) use a motor plate is it so when you give it full beans there is no play in rubber and you get every little BHP to the car ????

Guy · Post by **Guy** » Thu Sep 22, 11 3:52 pm

Why not go dry sump? it will solve all your clearance issues..

Post by **TyreFryer** » Thu Sep 22, 11 3:53 pm

Paul, how good is the bottle jack tube bender you've got? I was going to buy one of these but was told they weren't up to much. The bends in your pics look pretty good from what I can see.

latil · Post by **latil** » Thu Sep 22, 11 4:07 pm

I have one of those tube benders,not good on thin wall stuff,not bad on 2mm upwards. I find it tends to flatten the tube mid bend and tube goes egg shaped.

db · Post by db » Thu Sep 22, 11 4:25 pm

autofetish wrote:Nice sump it was really a question of money do it on the cheap and get down pod.

Also you most probably know but if not make sure you get this tool for cutting you pipes. It will eat blades but so much easier

I did all my cuts with this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tube-Notcher- ... 3cbc5d4fa4

Nice bit o'kit but not worth £80 for the small number of cuts i'll be doing.

Q. why would you (or anyone) use a motor plate is it so when you give it full beans there is no play in rubber and you get every little BHP to the car ????
Yes! At least that's what i believe. My motor's out of Pete Wiseman's Sox replica- we went for a spin to try the motor before i bought it. You feel every horsepower through every bone in your body. Not exactly a comfy ride but BLOODY exciting!

db · Post by db » Thu Sep 22, 11 4:30 pm

Guy wrote:Why not go dry sump? it will solve all your clearance issues..

I'd love to but mucho dinero

db · Post by db » Thu Sep 22, 11 4:37 pm

Martin- Just as Steve says.
I've used it on exhaust pipe before now and even a gentle bend quickly flattens the tube. This stuff bent perfectly though.

I was asking a fabricator mate whether he'd do the bends for me and he said do it yourself, the main thing is the pipe has to be a perfect fit for the die. I had to knock the die off the pipe with a hammer after each bend!

db · Post by db » Thu Sep 22, 11 5:37 pm

Ok, ASS KICKING TIME

I've found the Friday afternoon bit of the car...

I thought i'd best double-check the new rack position as i'd only used it's old position as a guide.
I measured to the A-arm pivots and summat wasn't right so i've now measured from the chassis torque arm mount (i used this when i welded in the 4-link so it's a good datum point) to various points on the front suspension, see attached pic.

Looks like the whole bloody lot will have to be re-done

EDIT: Unless this is some clever non- symmetrical anti-twist geometry for drag racing?? Anyone???

Mopar Muscle Association UK

db's 66 Belvedere FOR SALE